Mr.TaterSalad Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: You said they were socialist. Our friends from Canada want to come visit us, but their govt won't let them. Does that sound like freedom to you? Problem is, America has become quite socialist in many areas. And, we are not supposed to be a democratic society. We are supposed to be a Republic. Democracy is mob rule without regard for individual liberties. It's two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner. As far as I know, they don't ban Canadians from coming here. They put in a travel advisory warning against all non-essential travel and do have reentry criteria. And I'll grant you, I think these travel bans have by and large failed. Most every country, sans maybe Australia, has seen a spread in the other variants of Covid like Delta and Omicron. And I don't think restricting freedom of movement among people is ok or acceptable as I do believe it leads down a very slippery slope. People need to be able to travel and move about freely and largely unrestricted. We're socialist all right, for corporations and the rich. Prior to the pandemic, it was rugged economic individualism for the rest of us for the most part and bailouts and subsidies for corporations. See TARP as a perfect example of that. No one bailed out homeowners, they only got the half-baked HARP program. The financial sector got a full scale, sweeping bailout for their misgivings. Also, if you're concerned about socialism then when you turn (if you aren't already) the eligible age for Medicare and Social Security, I would expect you to not participate in those programs. Maybe donate your Social Security income to the poor or a Church or split the check between Chas, Fife, and I. Nor would I expect you to visit your local public library, drive on public roads, use public transit, send your kids to public schools, support pollution controls over big business, etc. Edited December 23, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: You said they were socialist. Our friends from Canada want to come visit us, but their govt won't let them. Does that sound like freedom to you? Problem is, America has become quite socialist in many areas. And, we are not supposed to be a democratic society. We are supposed to be a Republic. Democracy is mob rule without regard for individual liberties. It's two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner. Canadians coming to the US are visitors and Mexicans are illegals. Speaking of mob rule, I haven't seen a bunch of Trudeau supporters attack parliament in an attempt to overturn an election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 With Canada being oppressed under the weight of socialism, why aren't Canadians fleeing to the US? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 2 hours ago, pfife said: Trump threw other people's money at developing the vax. I'll give him credit for that. But I also think it wasn't particularly brilliant, I think most presidents would have done the same thing if not mo Dolly Parton also threw money at vaccine development. As did many others. Correct! There is nothing brilliant about spending other people's money. It was the right thing to do, but it was a no brainer which pretty much any president would have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Fox Wismic said: Is there any reason why you guys who love socialism can't move to Canada? Leave us here to wallow in our own freedom and all of us will be happy. Or is your real agenda controlling others? I assume you are forgoing Medicare and Social Security. Stop buying food produced by subsidized farmers, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 While I think giving other posters derisive names is generally poor form, in the case of our recent conspiracy nutjob I am willing to make an exception. His links and posts are full of lies that in our current times are dangerous to our society. Therefore, I dub thee: Wiz Drips I am reminded of a quote from Dame Edith Sitwell that applies to him: ”I am patient with stupidity, but not those who are proud of it” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Fox Wismic said: Is there any reason why you guys who love socialism can't move to Canada? Leave us here to wallow in our own freedom and all of us will be happy. They are both good places to live. I am already settled in the United States and I am fine with it, so there is no reason to move elsewhere. Libertarianism and socialism are both simplistic and unrealistic ideologies. I am glad the United States (as well as Canada) has a mix of ideologies rather than trying to stick to some extreme unworkable dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I love when the same people who crow about defund the police call 911 when they have an emergency and ask for a government employee, a police officer, to show up. You'd think if you were consistently against government funded programs, you'd want private security firms to take care of police and fire services. I can hear the voice from India now "You said your house is being robbed, hold on while we process this credit card payment Mr. Eric." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Fox Wismic said: Biden Thanks Trump For COVID-19 Vaccine (rumble.com) Fact is though, Trump DID usher in Project Warp Speed and the vax. And he has not pretended covid doesn't exist. He had it himself. Those kind of comments are disingenuous. 3 hours ago, pfife said: he called it a hoax multiple times. FOH with that noise Trump only wanted to deny the virus required any actions that might affect the economy and reduce his chances of re-election. He was perfectly happy to talk up the virus in terms of him being the country's savior from it. So for Trump like *everything* else, his relation to facts about the virus were completely transactional: If they helped him they were true, if they impeded him, they were false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Wismic Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 I'd be for privitizing as much of that stuff as possible. My private retirement account will surpass my social security (which I've been forced to pay into for 40 years). If I could've invested that money into my private account, it would be MUCH better. I can protect myself better than waiting for police to arrive. I'd be for all private schools. Why should I pay for public schools to indoctrinate my kids in things I find odious? If you want your kids taught that stuff, you pay for it. Home schoolers do quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Wismic Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: They are both good places to live. I am already settled in the United States and I am fine with it, But you still want to tell me how I have to live, what choices I have to make, and force your desires upon me? You let me live my life, I'll let you live yours. If you're not okay with that, you don't belong in America. If you persist in trying to make me conform to your desires, you are not fine with living in America. You want to push America further toward Marxism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: But you still want to tell me how I have to live, what choices I have to make, and force your desires upon me? You let me live my life, I'll let you live yours. If you're not okay with that, you don't belong in America. If you persist in trying to make me conform to your desires, you are not fine with living in America. You want to push America further toward Marxism. I don't even think you know what Marxism is if you think it has anything to do with anything in this thread. But be that as it may, expecting people to make some level of accommodations in their own lives for the benefit of their fellow travelers is not called tyranny, it is called civilization. Try parsing this sentence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Do you notice the 1st principle is "LIFE" and the the rights are meant to inhere in *all*. Read some John Locke (the guy the Founders cribbed all this stuff from). Government exists to take us of out of the natural state of warfare every individual would otherwise be in with every one else. It is the reasonable expectation that your liberty will be proscribed by necessity of helping other people also gain their lives and liberties. The US right seems to want nothing more than to return exactly to some kind of state of individualist state of warfare as though it were some kind of virtue. Nothing could actually be further from the motivating principles for the founding of this nation. Edited December 23, 2021 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: I'd be for privitizing as much of that stuff as possible. My private retirement account will surpass my social security (which I've been forced to pay into for 40 years). If I could've invested that money into my private account, it would be MUCH better. I can protect myself better than waiting for police to arrive. I'd be for all private schools. Why should I pay for public schools to indoctrinate my kids in things I find odious? If you want your kids taught that stuff, you pay for it. Home schoolers do quite well. Well get your garden hose then the next time your house catches fire and I hope it never does. Also, to your point on Social Security, if my dad and millions of people in his same age bracket had their Social Security invested in the stock market as they did 401ks and personal investments, from 2000-2012, they'd have lost most if not all of those savings would have been lost. Same could be said for people who would have invested it during any economic downturn. You can also look to what Chile did in 1982 through today with their Social Security privatization and see that it failed. The Chilean model failed to live up to the standards it set for itself and left people depending on it for their retirement. Between high fees and lower than expected returns, it hasn't delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: But you still want to tell me how I have to live, what choices I have to make, and force your desires upon me? You let me live my life, I'll let you live yours. If you're not okay with that, you don't belong in America. If you persist in trying to make me conform to your desires, you are not fine with living in America. You want to push America further toward Marxism. LOL, When did I try to make you conform to my desires? You came into this forum and interrupted a fairly reasonable conversation by posting a lot of lies from conspiracy theory sites and I told you the articles sucked. I didn't say you couldn't continue reading them. YOU are the one telling me how to live my life by telling me I don't belong in America. Who are you to tell me what America should be and whether I should be living here? I am happy let you live your life as long as it doesn't affect my life negatively. In fact, I'd be happy to have you out of my life. LOL Edited December 23, 2021 by Tiger337 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 If you're fine with private security, than are there no laws if there are no police? Would there be no courts? It seems like a group would just take over like the Taliban. That sounds pretty awful. The US would eventually turn into the Purge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Fox Wismic said: Is there any reason why you guys who love socialism can't move to Canada? Leave us here to wallow in our own freedom and all of us will be happy. Or is your real agenda controlling others? My real agenda is living my life where I want and not moving away because people I don’t respect tell me to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 53 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: I'd be for privitizing as much of that stuff as possible. My private retirement account will surpass my social security (which I've been forced to pay into for 40 years). If I could've invested that money into my private account, it would be MUCH better. Taken any $15,000 vacations lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Taken any $15,000 vacations lately? I'm not sure I would get on a plane with those federal air traffic controllers and all those regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 👏👏👏👏👏 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 Mine wasn’t made in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Fox Wismic said: Problem is, America has become quite socialist in many areas. And, we are not supposed to be a democratic society. We are supposed to be a Republic. Democracy is mob rule without regard for individual liberties. It's two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner. A Republic is a type of Democracy. Calling us a Republic is just a common Libertarian deflection. Edited December 23, 2021 by Tiger337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 It's funny because I see a lot of proud boys and insurrectionists wear masks too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 10 hours ago, Hongbit said: This thread needs more You’ve chosen to ignore content by Fox Wismic Yeah I've had enough. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 6 hours ago, Fox Wismic said: Glad to see you are against politicians throwing other people's money (read: taxpayers) at do-gooder programs. You're becoming a libertarian as we speak 🙂 I Said literally the opposite chief and commended slump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 11 hours ago, Hongbit said: This thread needs more You’ve chosen to ignore content by Fox Wismic It's typical Libertarian arrogance. They are always try to teach us their ideology as if nobody has ever thought about freedom and lack of government interference. In reality, many intgelligent people have gone through the Libertarian phase already, but figured out that a productive civiliized society can not function under such a simplistic ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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