ewsieg Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Fox Wismic said: You are free to stay home if you feel threatened. The rest of us need to go on with our lives. The rest of us can't go on with our lives until nearly all are comfortable with going on with our lives. So maybe instead of telling everyone to get over it, maybe ask some folks what they need from you to help them get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: I'm not trying to perform any pretzel logic. Many folks felt the CDC wasn't acting in the best interest of their stated purpose in order to scare folks and hurt the economy. Now many folks appear to feel the CDC isn't acting in the best interest of their stated purpose in order to appease lobbyist/big business. In the first case, you joined me in shaking your head and wondering why those doubters weren't giving the CDC the benefit of the doubt. Now you're confused why I'm shaking my head at these new folks, that's some pretzel logic I can't wrap my head around. TBF to the CDC, politics does matter, in the sense that good compliance with a reasonably effective program that people will accept is better than no compliance with a better one they won't, and even more so, if you can keep business on your side helping push folks toward compliance, that is better than having them fighting you in court over a marginally better program. Purists don't like to hear that "science" is subject to real-politik, but in the end public Policy always has to be driven by more than just pure science. Science can only tell you what the likely outcomes will be, how society judges the relative value/cost of those outcomes is in the end not a scientific question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Wismic Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/25/2021 at 8:38 PM, Fox Wismic said: People die of lots of things. If you were to die, where would you go after death and why, pastor? I've never before seen a pastor who did not jump at the chance to give his salvation testimony when asked such a question. Politics aside, I expected more 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: I've never before seen a pastor who did not jump at the chance to give his salvation testimony when asked such a question. Politics aside, I expected more 😞 unserious question not taken seriously. News at 11 Edited December 30, 2021 by gehringer_2 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 6 hours ago, ewsieg said: The rest of us can't go on with our lives until nearly all are comfortable with going on with our lives. So maybe instead of telling everyone to get over it, maybe ask some folks what they need from you to help them get over it. Its almost as if sometimes personal choice has public ramifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: TBF to the CDC, politics does matter, in the sense that good compliance with a reasonably effective program that people will accept is better than no compliance with a better one they won't, and even more so, if you can keep business on your side helping push folks toward compliance, that is better than having them fighting you in court over a marginally better program. Purists don't like to hear that "science" is subject to real-politik, but in the end public Policy always has to be driven by more than just pure science. Science can only tell you what the likely outcomes will be, how society judges the relative value/cost of those outcomes is in the end not a scientific question. Absolutely true. And i'm not saying the CDC is beyond reproach. As i've said before, this virus has proved everyone wrong at one point or another, including the CDC. All i'm saying in regards to this specific issue is when members of a conservative party we have in the US have claimed the CDC is wrong or disagreed with a policy, members of a liberal party we have, have consistently defended them, with statements like, quoting a smart person I know (to be clear, there is no sarcasm in this statement) "Science can only tell you what the likely outcomes will be". I'd be hard-pressed to believe that the CDC has made this decision without some science to back it up, even if there was a political component that helped sway it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) Drove up to the Pistons game last night (don't judge me). Stopped at the rest area just inside michigan on I75N. Took me forever to find a parking space like what gives? Then I see a medical trailer for COVID testing. There were 75-100 standing outside waiting in line to get tested. Edited December 30, 2021 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) ... Edited December 30, 2021 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 17 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Looks like my company is determined to return everyone to the office February 1st with no vaccine mandate or social distancing. Prior to the pandemic, the company was working on renovating the office to be more open and "collaborative" which meant open desks in pods next to each other with no walls or any sort of personal space. Not only could we be forced to return, but we would be returning to a petri dish of disease. So far I cannot get anyone to answer what protocols will be in place. I do know there is no vaccine mandate. I do not believe there will be a mask mandate and frankly who wants to wear a mask 8+ hours? The CEO, meanwhile, is still working from home in Florida. He's near retirement and most people think he has just checked out. It would be comical if our safety wasn't at stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Cat Gentleman Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Got my Pfizer booster yesterday, and holy hell did it kick my ass. I haven't felt cold like I did last night since I was a kid in northern Minnesota winters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: Prior to the pandemic, the company was working on renovating the office to be more open and "collaborative" which meant open desks in pods next to each other with no walls or any sort of personal space. Not only could we be forced to return, but we would be returning to a petri dish of disease. So far I cannot get anyone to answer what protocols will be in place. I do know there is no vaccine mandate. I do not believe there will be a mask mandate and frankly who wants to wear a mask 8+ hours? The CEO, meanwhile, is still working from home in Florida. He's near retirement and most people think he has just checked out. It would be comical if our safety wasn't at stake. US Government has put walls up between cubes, masks at all times when you are not eating/drinkin. Pro-tip...always have a beverage at your desk to allow you to work without a mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Wismic Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: frankly who wants to wear a mask 8+ hours? That's a factor that often gets ignored. It's one thing to wear a mask for 15 minutes while shopping, or even a couple hours at some event, but for 10 hours a day at work, while doing strenuous activity without respite? Nobody, but nobody, wore them properly the entire time. That made them more of a hazard than a help. Where I work, ALL of our covid cases (including mine) came during the mask mandate. NONE before or since. But who could wear one properly all shift long without passing out before lunch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Got my nose swabbed this morning. With all the long lines at testing sites, I’m glad I found this place I went to. Was in and out in three minutes, and they couldn’t have been nicer or more efficient. Hoping to have results by tomorrow night as I’m supposed to have a small gathering with the gf and two friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, Crazy Cat Gentleman said: Got my Pfizer booster yesterday, and holy hell did it kick my ass. I haven't felt cold like I did last night since I was a kid in northern Minnesota winters. Felt the same. Hadn’t chills that bad in probably decades. It lingered a little longer than it did after my second shot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Wismic Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, romad1 said: masks at all times when you are not eating/drinkin. Pro-tip...always have a beverage at your desk to allow you to work without a mask. But why? Cannot the virus be transmitted while drinking or eating? Especially if you are cheating by always having a drink handy? And that's at a desk. It's much worse if you do physical labor. It's the height of irony when a guy who sits on his @$$ for a living and still finds ways to unmask, but criticizes guys who do strenuous physical labor for 8-10 hours a day for being anti-mask 😕 If you as much as *touch* your mask, even if "permitted legally", you've just rendered it more of a hazard than a help. If it works, it's collecting whatever you expel. And you've just touched that concentrate with your fingers - the most disease-spreadable part of your body. And everybody does that to eat, drink, or just breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Cat Gentleman Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said: It lingered a little longer than it did after my second shot too. Yeah I only this morning got to the part where my skin feels like it's on fire. Still kind of chilly, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 hours ago, ewsieg said: I'd be hard-pressed to believe that the CDC has made this decision without some science to back it up, even if there was a political component that helped sway it as well. I suppose what it comes down to in most people's mind is whether you believe a person who made an error was either doing the best you can/acting in good faith, or was being cynical, trying to profit etc. Of course that can vary. I suppose there are people out there who believe that the CDC is full of nefarious people, I suppose there are people out there that believe Ron DeSantis really believes he is acting in the best interests of his constituents. For myself, that combination is just a place I find it hard to get to....🚌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 40 minutes ago, Fox Wismic said: But why? Cannot the virus be transmitted while drinking or eating? Especially if you are cheating by always having a drink handy? And that's at a desk. It's much worse if you do physical labor. It's the height of irony when a guy who sits on his @$$ for a living and still finds ways to unmask, but criticizes guys who do strenuous physical labor for 8-10 hours a day for being anti-mask 😕 If you as much as *touch* your mask, even if "permitted legally", you've just rendered it more of a hazard than a help. If it works, it's collecting whatever you expel. And you've just touched that concentrate with your fingers - the most disease-spreadable part of your body. And everybody does that to eat, drink, or just breathe. I want to be clear that I would wear a mask for the duration of time in office. My issue is that we have worked from home for 2 years without issue so it isn't necessary to force everybody into the office again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I want to be clear that I would wear a mask for the duration of time in office. My issue is that we have worked from home for 2 years without issue so it isn't necessary to force everybody into the office again. Out of curiosity, do you have access to communicating with an HR person? Shouldn’t they be the point person(s) on this issue. I would think someone should provide the “why and hows” on this decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 I have little patience for babies that complain about having to wear a mask all day. My wife’s been doing it since this began while dealing first hand with the idiots and their families. Seriously. Grow the fuck up and get some balls. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, oblong said: I have little patience for babies that complain about having to wear a mask all day. My wife’s been doing it since this began while dealing first hand with the idiots and their families. Seriously. Grow the fuck up and get some balls. I don't know if this is directed at me, but I wasn't complaining about wearing the mask but instead I said "who wants to wear a mask 8+ hours a day" meaning people aren't going to adhere to a mask mandate. The real issue is that we have been doing this job for 2 years away from the office so there is absolutely no need to put everybody back in the office again with no vaccine mandates. That will just provide more idiots and family your wife will have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, 1776 said: Out of curiosity, do you have access to communicating with an HR person? Shouldn’t they be the point person(s) on this issue. I would think someone should provide the “why and hows” on this decision? The return to office is coming down from the CEO. HR around here seems to only be used to screen applicants and they do a poor job at that. I've also learned that a lot of people whom they hired from out of state had a clause in their job offer that they would relocate if and when there was a return to office. Hearing a lot of people may resign over that because they were unaware and led to believe their remote work from home was permanent. Ironically we'll probably lose more people over that than a vaccine mandate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: The return to office is coming down from the CEO. HR around here seems to only be used to screen applicants and they do a poor job at that. I've also learned that a lot of people whom they hired from out of state had a clause in their job offer that they would relocate if and when there was a return to office. Hearing a lot of people may resign over that because they were unaware and led to believe their remote work from home was permanent. Ironically we'll probably lose more people over that than a vaccine mandate. Don't you get the impression that most American businesses succeed in spite of their management instead of because of it? Given the tools available today you could survey your employees at the cost of about 10 minutes of your exec admin's time and maybe get a dialog going with your employees? I'll give UM credit for that as an employer - we get surveyed by the admin a lot. I don't know if they use the feedback(!?), but they do solicit it pretty constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Don't you get the impression that most American businesses succeed in spite of their management instead of because of it? Given the tools available today you could survey your employees at the cost of about 10 minutes of your exec admin's time and maybe get a dialog going with your employees? I'll give UM credit for that as an employer - we get surveyed by the admin a lot. I don't know if they use the feedback(!?), but they do solicit it pretty constantly. Our CEO took over when the company was on the brink on insolvency and brought it back. They do encourage feedback and the CEO does a video update for the whole company and encourages feedback. It's really been the last 6 months or so where the company has been making bizarre decisions. The CEO is in his late 60's and lives in Florida so most suspect he has just checked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 22 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I don't know if this is directed at me, but I wasn't complaining about wearing the mask but instead I said "who wants to wear a mask 8+ hours a day" meaning people aren't going to adhere to a mask mandate. The real issue is that we have been doing this job for 2 years away from the office so there is absolutely no need to put everybody back in the office again with no vaccine mandates. That will just provide more idiots and family your wife will have to deal with. It wasn’t. Sounds like your bosses are on some power trip and can’t imagine having to back track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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