1776 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: I mean, I don't think Biden engineered the new variant and released it into the South African public. HUGE DISCLAIMER : I do not, and will not, support Trump and agree with much of the criticism leveled at him on this board. However, Archie is 100% correct. Trump did not engineer a new virus in the Wuhan lab, or wherever the hell this thing came from either. I can’t begin to guess at how many comments I read over numerous media boards and conversations the last 18 months that, and I’m paraphrasing here, ‘Trump has now killed (fill in # the blank) Americans to date based on virus deaths.’ It was absurd. I now see some of that empty rhetoric directed at Biden. Trump nor Biden is responsible for COVID deaths and the whole blame game accomplishes nothing. It is the lowest common denominator in rational thought. I commend Biden’s efforts in trying to get this thing contained, if that is even possible. It is a tragedy this virus has been politicized the way it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 31 minutes ago, pfife said: I would criticize trump b/c the policy, as stated in leaked emails, was for people to get the virus. That's an obvious difference that no one need gloss over. That Trump handled this irresponsibly is correct. I think it took him way too long to grasp what this was and what it would entail. But, playing devils advocate…the Biden team, prior to the election, raised doubts on the validity of the vaccines for the sake of gaining political advantage in November. Everyone made mistakes. It was a bipartisan effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 So I see that there are lines forever across the country waiting to be tested. Are all these people unvaccinated? Is that why they’re standing in the cold for hours to get an answer to whether or not they’ve been exposed? And they still won’t get the shot? Is this correct or am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 1776 said: That Trump handled this irresponsibly is correct. I think it took him way too long to grasp what this was and what it would entail. But, playing devils advocate…the Biden team, prior to the election, raised doubts on the validity of the vaccines for the sake of gaining political advantage in November. Everyone made mistakes. It was a bipartisan effort. Politically, things are going to depend on how Omicron affects the vaccinated. If the initial reports of "not very much" are validated by the actual experience, the Admin is not probably not going see much political cost from its existing supporters since according to all reports, they are highly vaccinated. What does seem to be growing is the resentment of the vaccinated toward the unvaccinated as being responsible for the Omicron break out. TBF, that might actually be an unfair charge as it would appear the vaccinated do become infected with and spread Omicron quite well even if they are not significantly affected by it. Edited January 8, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 When the Trump administration arrived in 2017 there was a task force with virus epidemic systems spelled out. A playbook on how to deal with the type of situation that happened a few years later. The Trump folks tossed it out-like so many things they trashed purely because it as a product of the Obama people. That was bad enough, but as others have mentioned, the focus during Trump’s time in office was keeping the stock market high, not containing the virus spread. Yes, the vaccines were developed quickly by scientists, but at the same time Trump himself was saying really stupid shit about bleach and hydroxycloroquine and bright lights. Always downplaying the dangers- We’ll be done by Easter, or we’ll be rockin’ by July. Biden has made mistakes, but he has been in the position of cleaning up a massive mess that Trump made worse in many ways. The vax skepticism has cost tens of thousands or more lives in the US and Trump failed miserably in terms of advocating for it. He strives on creating chaos and could have used his influence in a positive way. He did the opposite. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, 1776 said: So I see that there are lines forever across the country waiting to be tested. Are all these people unvaccinated? Is that why they’re standing in the cold for hours to get an answer to whether or not they’ve been exposed? And they still won’t get the shot? Is this correct or am I missing something here? IDK, a lot of possibilities. FWIW I can give you an anecdote for a bunch of tests that will be done in the next few days. We have a group of friends - all vaxxed and boosted, that have a ski weekend planned for next week. One has an infant grandchild. Parents are very strict about making sure Grandma stays 'clean' if she is going to be allowed to see grandaughter, so in deference to her, we are all going to test before the trip so grandma can assure son & daughter in-law she has not been exposed. Probably over kill since for 'O' we now have the shorter 5 day quarantine but it is what it is. Lot of people want to know their status for lots of reasons. And to be honest, anyone with an accurate thermometer (a lot of new digital ones are not so much!) and the willingness to track themselves say, 4 times or more time a day - or better yet something like a bio sensor ring, can probably detect their status before a quick antigen even shows it. Even if you never get a clinically relevant fever, your body temp usually will still show enough shift to pick out if you are tracking it. Edited January 8, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Dan Gilmore said: When the Trump administration arrived in 2017 there was a task force with virus epidemic systems spelled out. A playbook on how to deal with the type of situation that happened a few years later. The Trump folks tossed it out-like so many things they trashed purely because it as a product of the Obama people. That was bad enough, but as others have mentioned, the focus during Trump’s time in office was keeping the stock market high, not containing the virus spread. Yes, the vaccines were developed quickly by scientists, but at the same time Trump himself was saying really stupid shit about bleach and hydroxycloroquine and bright lights. Always downplaying the dangers- We’ll be done by Easter, or we’ll be rockin’ by July. Biden has made mistakes, but he has been in the position of cleaning up a massive mess that Trump made worse in many ways. The vax skepticism has cost tens of thousands or more lives in the US and Trump failed miserably in terms of advocating for it. He strives on creating chaos and could have used his influence in a positive way. He did the opposite. On top of that we had people from the CDC who worked in Wuhan for this very purpose. Trump got rid of them because “I don’t like to pay people who aren’t doing anything”. He literally threw out the smoke detector because it was just sitting there not detecting smoke. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 20 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: Katie Porter. I don't see it, she strikes me as one of those politicians that wants to do their job rather than get media attention. No room for her on the national stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: IDK, a lot of possibilities. FWIW I can give you an anecdote for a bunch of tests that will be done in the next few days. We have a group of friends - all vaxxed and boosted, that have a ski weekend planned for next week. One has an infant grandchild. Parents are very strict about making sure Grandma stays 'clean' if she is going to be allowed to see grandaughter, so in deference to her, we are all going to test before the trip so grandma can assure son & daughter in-law she has not been exposed. Probably over kill since for 'O' we now have the shorter 5 day quarantine but it is what it is. Lot of people want to know their status for lots of reasons. And to be honest, anyone with an accurate thermometer (a lot of new digital ones are not so much!) and the willingness to track themselves say, 4 times or more time a day - or better yet something like a bio sensor ring, can probably detect their status before a quick antigen even shows it. Even if you never get a clinically relevant fever, your body temp usually will still show enough shift to pick out if you are tracking it. Granted I don't know the medical situation of all involved here, but damn this sounds like overkill from what I suspect are 'follow the science' type folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, 1776 said: However, Archie is 100% correct. Trump did not engineer a new virus in the Wuhan lab, or wherever the hell this thing came from either. Correct. 2 hours ago, 1776 said: I can’t begin to guess at how many comments I read over numerous media boards and conversations the last 18 months that, and I’m paraphrasing here, ‘Trump has now killed (fill in # the blank) Americans to date based on virus deaths.’ And? I'm not sure why I have to answer for the claims of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Correct. And? I'm not sure why I have to answer for the claims of others. My commentary, free of charge by the way, was not directed at you. Apologies for not clarifying as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Dr called today, after consulting with all the different doctors involved in my wife's care for the last few weeks, everything points to Serum Syndrome which they suspect came on due to my wife getting both the Covid and Flu shot at the same time. She gets to have an Epi pen with her always now and the allergist needs to be consulted for any future shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, 1776 said: My commentary, free of charge by the way, was not directed at you. Apologies for not clarifying as such. But here's the thing. Archie appears to be blaming Joe Biden for not fixing the virus when we have learned that a highly transmissibile variant has arisen and has caused this latest surge. By extension, he's basically doing what you are complaining "people in media and in conversations" did with Trump. Yet you led off by saying "Archie is right". That seems contradictory to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Regardless, I don't watch cable news and honestly don't give a flying F what Joy Reid, Rachel Maddow or other media commentators have say about any of this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: Parents are very strict about making sure Grandma stays 'clean' if she is going to be allowed to see grandaughter, so in deference to her, we are all going to test before the trip so grandma can assure son & daughter in-law she has not been exposed. Probably over kill since for 'O' we now have the shorter 5 day quarantine but it is what it is. Lot of people want to know their status for lots of reasons. Yep. We were given the gentle warning that we had to test negative before a weekend visit to see the grandkids. This was before the vaccines were readily available. We were more than happy to oblige. Out of nothing more than curiosity, I still have to wonder how many of these people waiting in line for hours for testing have not been vaccinated. And if they haven’t, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Archie said: Yesterday the US had over 800,000 new cases reported and Michigan is also at an all time high of 20,000+. I'm glad one of BIden's campaign promises was to fix this. I know if Trump was elected on the same promise you guys would be all over it but I see Biden gets a pass. On the bright side, Covid saved UM mens basketball a loss today since the game against MSU was postponed or cancelled. Tom and his team would have ran over them. What specifically has Biden done wrong which is causing deaths and prolonging the pandemic? I would blame Trump for not taking the pandemic seriously and creating an environment where conspiracy theorists inculding politicians and major media are spreading lies about the nature of Covid and the vaccine. There is no way to estimate how much damage that may have caused, but he was incredibly irresponsible. Edited January 8, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 No more colonoscopies, no lung ex ray, no blood tests for potential diabetes, heart disease, etc. Welcome to the fifties, Making America Great Again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: What specifically has Biden done wrong which is causing deaths and prolonging the pandemic? I would blame Trump for not taking the pandemic seriously and creating an environment where conspiracy theorists inculding politicians and major media are spreading lies about the nature of Covid and the vaccine. There is no way to estimate how much damage that may have caused, but he was incredibly irresponsible. conversely, the biggest aid to helping people during this epidemic has been the vaccines. and the process to develop those vaccines was started by the trump administration. they deserve credit for that. that may be all they deserve credit for, but its something. biden hasnt done anything to prolong covid and there is nothing they can do - or trump could have done - to stop it. trump deserves blame for contradictory messaging and serious blame for not promoting mitigation measures earlier. if he had done so, there's a good chance his people would have followed in line and not raised as big of a fuss. but that wouldnt have prevented covid or its spread. its a virus and were humans. its gonna spread. i mean, the chinese locked up their people and it still spread like crazy. biden cant do anything to stop it. and he doesnt want to take the next step of telling people were just going to have to live with it and its up to you personally to take responsibility. but that's the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, buddha said: conversely, the biggest aid to helping people during this epidemic has been the vaccines. and the process to develop those vaccines was started by the trump administration. they deserve credit for that. that may be all they deserve credit for, but its something. The Trump administration Okayed the use of our tax dollars to help speed up the processes. I think any president would have done that, but yeah It was the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just now, Tiger337 said: The Trump administration Okayed the use of our tax dollars to help speed up the processes. I think any president would have done that, but yeah It was the right thing to do. its more than just "oking" the tax dollars. an administrative organization has to be put in place and a plan executed. they deserve credit for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, buddha said: its more than just "oking" the tax dollars. an administrative organization has to be put in place and a plan executed. they deserve credit for that. I think stuff like that is done by people we don't hear about. Trump's role was okaying tax dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just now, Tiger337 said: I think stuff like that is done by people we don't hear about. Trump's role was okaying tax dollars. well sure, "trump" doesnt set up the organization himself, no president does that. but that's why i said the "trump administration" deserves credit. and trump is a part of that so he deserves credit too. do you think obama came up with the details of obamacare? me neither. but he deserves credit for it because he was the president and it was his administration's idea. franklin roosevelt for the new deal? teddy for trust busting? trump for space force? ok, maybe not that last one but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 14 minutes ago, buddha said: biden cant do anything to stop it. and he doesnt want to take the next step of telling people were just going to have to live with it and its up to you personally to take responsibility. but that's the next step. Yes, we are going to have to learn to live with it. The best thing they can do is continue to give us honest guidance on what we should be doing. They should be clear and aggressive about recommendations, but mandates are not necessary and shutdowns should not come back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, buddha said: trump deserves blame for contradictory messaging and serious blame for not promoting mitigation measures earlier. if he had done so, there's a good chance his people would have followed in line and not raised as big of a fuss. correct. the big effect was to harden right wing opinion against masking but more importantly vaccination. I admit it's not certain the right would have listened to him or not even in the beginning, they certainly don't listen to him now on vaccines, but he had a moral obligation to try and failed pretty miserably there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, buddha said: well sure, "trump" doesnt set up the organization himself, no president does that. but that's why i said the "trump administration" deserves credit. and trump is a part of that so he deserves credit too. do you think obama came up with the details of obamacare? me neither. but he deserves credit for it because he was the president and it was his administration's idea. franklin roosevelt for the new deal? teddy for trust busting? trump for space force? ok, maybe not that last one but you get the idea. No, I don't think Obama developed anything. No president does. I think Obama actually read reports about Obamacare and knew more about the process than Trump does. I know a lot of people think Trump is a secret genius who just acts dumb, but I believe Trump is truly ignorant and shallow. His skills are manipulation and self promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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