Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[Tiger337]

34 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

There are quite a few of you on this page that occasionally like to show a bar chart with each of the past X presidents under it and it shows how much the debt went up/down for each president.  That's all the proof you need to determine which party is the best at handling the economy.  Well, only two presidents that dealt with Covid, the one with the vaccine actually has the higher death count.  Case closed, amirite?

 

That chart is usually included to show that Republicans spend a ton of money too, just like Democrats.  I don't remember it being used to show which party is better at the economy.  

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tiger337

[pfife]

[mtutiger]

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/16/913560563/cdc-director-says-covid-vaccine-likely-wont-be-widely-available-until-next-year

In terms of why Trump doesnt get more credit, as well as some of the distrust sewed during his administration, I do think the article above details comments that have been sort of memory holed over time.

Specifically tying vaccine distribution to the election (contradicting his own CDC Director) was a serious mistake made by Trump. For whatever reason, people just seem to gloss over it and forget about it.

Edited January 9, 2022 by mtutiger

[ewsieg]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I agree with you that the administration dropped the ball on testing, for what its worth. Doesn't "hurt my feelings" to say that, it's simply factual.

But while it's easy to blame partisans in regards to the polarization bit (big surprise, thermostatic partisanship is bad for the country!), I honestly don't know how the administration is supposed to deal with that. That die has been cast for a long time and, like election fraud, has become a litmus test for a number of people. Obviously they will get blame in the court of public opinion because the buck stops with them, I just don't know in practice what they should be doing that would effectuate a different result. 

Please note i'm not saying Biden should have recognized it as a problem and fixed it overnight.  I'm not sure if anyone can fix it in this climate.  I guess i'll point to Whitmer as an example.  Very vocal and in front of everything, even at a national level early on.  For those that argued that it didn't look like it affected kids (and schools should be open) or those that felt the proposed solutions to deal with Covid actually hurt Americans more in terms of other means (jobs/economy/mental health), she was all to willing, as with all dems, to ridicule and claim she 'follows science'.  

I've been vocal that I agreed with her that it was better to error on the side of caution.  But as this last year continued to show trouble with how we were dealing with this, she's disappeared.  I had health issues with my family, so maybe I was still wanting to be a little overly cautious, but you couldn't get anything out of Whitmer outside of initially where she'd mislead about the GOP for stripping her of her power.  Then she went radio silent.  Looking back at it now, I think she realized before the media started to realize just how damaging not having kids in school was.  I think she probably was seeing the science which indicated it was safe for them to go back.  And for those in the community that were still at risk to it, they had access to a vaccine if they wanted it.  But from being so vocal initially, how can she come out and be so forceful to get kids back to school, especially when teacher unions were still hesitant.  Even worse, it could look like she is admitting a mistake.  So, instead of being vocal, up front, informing folks about the science involved, showing she's willing to change based on current evidence, she chose to sit tight.  Covid goes south again, she knows the Dems will blame Trump, if it clears up, she'll ride with Biden on the "you're welcome" tour.

And what came from doing nothing, you have a group that chooses to error on the side of caution with absolutely everything, even when there is no science to support some of those decisions under the umbrella of 'we follow science' and we have another group that see's some of that extreme caution, sees the science that shows how uncalled for it is, and uses that to deepen their own flawed outlook.  

[ewsieg]

47 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

I’m sorry that you are tired of hearing that, maybe take a nap. It’s true. Coming into office during a global pandemic that has killed millions is a huge mess. Whether you’re tired of hearing it is of no concern to me.

I have never posted any graphs here on any topics. You quoted me. Build your strawman on some other turf.

I'm glad nothing I say is a concern to you.  Stick around then as this is a good place for you as within a few months, a few of these Trump wanna-be's will get banned (probably rightly so) and you can place an ignore on me and get all the information that matches your existing ideology spoon fed to you.

34 minutes ago, pfife said:

Taking my wife, who we had no idea of what was going on and add on her health issues over the years, into the hospital was a little scary to say the least.  Of course, never expected that they actual Covid shot itself was part of the reason why were were there.  I don't know how she didn't get it while there.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

I agree to a point, but again, this is overkill.  The people at risk in your story are vaccinated.  The flu is literally more deadly than Covid for the infant.  I'm not saying Covid is just like the Flu, but for children we have data now showing it's not an issue.  Do these parents ever put their kid in a car?  If so, might be time to call CPS.

https://www.vox.com/22699019/covid-19-children-kids-risk-hospitalization-death

 

the question is overkill for whom of course. It may be overkill for the young parents, but from the standpoint of the group, their stance is simply a fact in evidence that is beyond our control, all we can do is deal with it to the best advantage of our friend.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

... There are quite a few of you on this page that occasionally like to show a bar chart with ... Well, only two presidents that dealt with Covid, the one with the vaccine actually has the higher death count...

 

ALL Covid deaths are Trump's fault, including those in 2021.

The only 2021 deaths are from the unvaccinated, and those jokers weren't vaccinated because Trump TOLD them to not take the vaccine. And the 2020 deaths were the origination of Trump's "shoot up some bleach", "try hydroxychloroquine", "try ivermectin", "Shoot a light up your ass and all will be well" horseshit.

So EVERY Covid death is Trump's fault.

Didn't you know?

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, ewsieg said:

The federal response in regards to testing has been atrocious.

Not to mention that testing is now another moving target. It appears that antigen rapid tests may not even detect Omicron until a couple days past your point of infectiousness, so the the messaging even if we could figure it out correctly is getting to be more complicated than much of the public is going to have the patience to parse.

The problem is structural though. Public health in the US has never been located in the Federal gov - it's largely a state and even county responsibility in most places. And then you have GOP govs and legislatures hamstringing their own public health depts that are trying to respond. For the fed to build out something like a massive testing capability they have to start at ground zero. Simply paying for tests, as they have been doing so far, doesn't really control the supply as we have seen the manufacturers pull back when they anticipated demand would fall. To do it right you really need a package of enabling legislation to set up some new capacities, but what are the odds of anything getting done legislatively?

What maybe they could have done, and probably should have, is set up a standing federal governor's  conference where they could have tried to get coordinate to keep state  govs on the same page - but again, what would that have looked like when most of the GOP govs refused to show up? 

Edited January 9, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Jim Cowan]

Here is a serious question, about something about which I have no information.  I keep reading that Trump should get credit for the vaccines, and I want to know why.  It is was my understanding that the US government did not give any money to the companies that developed the vaccines, and that "Operation Warp Speed" would spend some taxpayer money on vaccine distribution.  Is that not correct?

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Here is a serious question, about something about which I have no information.  I keep reading that Trump should get credit for the vaccines, and I want to know why.  It is was my understanding that the US government did not give any money to the companies that developed the vaccines, and that "Operation Warp Speed" would spend some taxpayer money on vaccine distribution.  Is that not correct?

Yes.

He set up the logistics end only.

Nothing more.

He gets no credit whatsoever for the expedited vaccine, which was a private industry accomplishment.

He gets credit for setting up the infrastructure to rapidly disperse the vaccine(s) once approved, out to the public. Nothing more.

[Motor City Sonics]

Let me know when Biden publicly asks if ingesting bleach or disinfectant is an option.  

[Crazy Cat Gentleman]

frickin' sweet

[Sports_Freak]

7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Let me know when Biden publicly asks if ingesting bleach or disinfectant is an option.  

Part of the whole problem (anti-vaxxers..anti-maskers) are from people with limited intelligence (Trumpers) bring politics into the discussion of a virus. The virus doesn't care if you're a R or a D. It's just spreading around because of the stubborn idiots trying to make it all look like it's Bidens fault. Very shortsighted of them.

[Sports_Freak]

10 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

ALL Covid deaths are Trump's fault, including those in 2021.

The only 2021 deaths are from the unvaccinated, and those jokers weren't vaccinated because Trump TOLD them to not take the vaccine. And the 2020 deaths were the origination of Trump's "shoot up some bleach", "try hydroxychloroquine", "try ivermectin", "Shoot a light up your ass and all will be well" horseshit.

So EVERY Covid death is Trump's fault.

Didn't you know?

In the months that really, really mattered, Donald Trump was spending every minute trying to steal an election. If he would have spent that time setting up national standards for testing and vaccine distribution, we may have been better off. We'll never know because his corruption was so deeply rooted, it was not going to change. A total dereliction of duty.

[gehringer_2]

11 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Here is a serious question, about something about which I have no information.  I keep reading that Trump should get credit for the vaccines, and I want to know why.  It is was my understanding that the US government did not give any money to the companies that developed the vaccines, and that "Operation Warp Speed" would spend some taxpayer money on vaccine distribution.  Is that not correct?

I don't believe that is correct. As I understand it, the US did distribute direct development support funds to several pharmas. Ironically, Pfizer, who was first to market, did not take any US development funds, but was the recipient of a US gov purchase guarantee. Moderna did get $1.5 billion and their vaccine may actually be the best of the bunch so far. Then again, 3.5 billion went to Novovax and Sanofi for efforts that haven't produced an approved candidate yet - but both do have products still in trial.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Jim Cowan]

Just to add a comment to the idea that Trump is not responsible for unnecessary deaths, he most certainly is.  Americans die from Covid at a rate that is more than 3 times that of Canadians, which amounts to 600,000 unnecessary deaths so far.  He spent most of 2020 mocking people for wearing masks and telling his idiot throng that "it's a flu", turning mask resistance and, by extension, anti-vaxxing into a MAGA core value.  He directly killed the guy, was it in Denver?, who drank the aquarium cleaner after Trump said hydroxy was a cure.  So let's not hear any more about "we'll never know how many Americans would have died under a different presidency", of course we will.  Divide the eventual total by 3.

[Jim Cowan]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't believe that is correct. As I understand it, the US did distribute direct development support funds to several pharmas. Ironically, Pfizer, who was first to market, did not take any US development funds, but was the recipient of a US gov purchase guarantee. Moderna did get $1.5 billion and their vaccine may actually be the best of the bunch so far. Then again, 3.5 billion went to Novovax and Sanofi for efforts that haven't produced an approved candidate yet - but both do have products still in trial.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed

 

Thanks for that.  So it seems that the US government might get an assist on Moderna, but had no connection to vaccine development at Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, or Astra Zeneca.

Which is a long, long way from "let's give Trump proper credit for the vaccines".

[Motown Bombers]

Trump treated COVID as a PR problem instead of a public health crisis. No one blames him for the creation of the virus. Just by memory, some of the things he did that made it worse were downplaying the seriousness at the outset, claiming it was a hoax, saying it would go away like a miracle, claiming it would be gone by easter, comparing it to the flu and calling it kung flu, hosting super spreader events like his Tulsa rally and supreme court confirmation with disregard for protocols, resisting wearing a mask and mandates, resisting testing because it would add more cases, publicly questioning the CDC and Fauci and attacking their credibility, promoting unproven cures he got from a pillow salesman, attacking blue states and governors by withholding assistance and calling on his minions to liberate them, and blaming Obama for the pandemic because he gutted Obama's pandemic response team.  

Edited January 9, 2022 by Motown Bombers

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Trump treated COVID as a PR problem instead of a public health crisis. No one blames him for the creation of the virus. Just by memory, some of the things he did that made it worse were downplaying the seriousness at the outset, claiming it was a hoax, saying it would go away like a miracle, claiming it would be gone by easter, comparing it to the flu and calling it kung flu, hosting super spreader events like his Tulsa rally and supreme court confirmation with disregard for protocols, resisting wearing a mask and mandates, resisting testing because it would add more cases, publicly questioning the CDC and Fauci and attacking their credibility, promoting unproven cures he got from a pillow salesman, attacking blue states and governors by withholding assistance and calling on his minions to liberate them, and blaming Obama for the pandemic because he gutted Obama's pandemic response team.  

right. What's the problem? Other than (all) that , he did fine.

[Motor City Sonics]

4 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

it all look like it's Bidens fault. Very shortsighted of them.

The Q-turds think the Kentucky tornadoes are Biden's fault.   Obama showed him how to use the tornado machine.  

[ewsieg]

14 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Here is a serious question, about something about which I have no information.  I keep reading that Trump should get credit for the vaccines, and I want to know why.  It is was my understanding that the US government did not give any money to the companies that developed the vaccines, and that "Operation Warp Speed" would spend some taxpayer money on vaccine distribution.  Is that not correct?

Operation Warp Speed, IMO, was the 'deep state' Trump bashed the entire time he was in office.  A group of long time government workers and then their agencies that got high enough approval to go find a solution to any issues arise as companies try and develop the vaccine.  Trump deserves credit for backing it, but i'd like to think if my 17 year old was faced with the issues we had going on at the time, and a bunch of CEO's along with health care experts explaining to him how important this was and that they need cooperation, he would have backed it too.  This worked despite Trump being president, not because of Trump being president.

57 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The Q-turds think the Kentucky tornadoes are Biden's fault.   Obama showed him how to use the tornado machine.  

It's a crazy world.  Youngkin got railed over the I-95 debacle.  Best tweet I saw went off on him, then someone replied how Northam was still Gov, A little later the same women tweets how the response from Northam in dealing with I-95 was fantastic.

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Thanks for that.  So it seems that the US government might get an assist on Moderna, but had no connection to vaccine development at Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, or Astra Zeneca.

Which is a long, long way from "let's give Trump proper credit for the vaccines".

Pfizer built on years and years of US research funding though.  Add in that Warp Speed did more than just supply money, but worked with companies to deal with any type of issue they may encounter related to the development, production, and shipping of these vaccines.  One could argue that Truman, and every president since, deserves some credit.

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Operation Warp Speed, IMO, was the 'deep state' Trump bashed the entire time he was in office.  A group of long time government workers and then their agencies that got high enough approval to go find a solution to any issues arise as companies try and develop the vaccine. 

I think a lot of positive things that happen in the country are due to the "deep state".  The government is our largest employer.  Just like any large organization, there are many good employees and some bad employees.  The people at the top get all the credit, but it's usually some unknown people that do most of the work.  

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tiger337

[Archie]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Trump treated COVID as a PR problem instead of a public health crisis. No one blames him for the creation of the virus. Just by memory, some of the things he did that made it worse were downplaying the seriousness at the outset, claiming it was a hoax, saying it would go away like a miracle, claiming it would be gone by easter, comparing it to the flu and calling it kung flu, hosting super spreader events like his Tulsa rally and supreme court confirmation with disregard for protocols, resisting wearing a mask and mandates, resisting testing because it would add more cases, publicly questioning the CDC and Fauci and attacking their credibility, promoting unproven cures he got from a pillow salesman, attacking blue states and governors by withholding assistance and calling on his minions to liberate them, and blaming Obama for the pandemic because he gutted Obama's pandemic response team.  

At no time did President Trump ever state covid was a hoax.  That actually came from either the democrats or the liberal media playing politics and a bunch of uninformed people started believing it came directly from Trump. 

[CMRivdogs]

16 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

 

It's a crazy world.  Youngkin got railed over the I-95 debacle.  Best tweet I saw went off on him, then someone replied how Northam was still Gov, A little later the same women tweets how the response from Northam in dealing with I-95 was fantastic.

 

I saw tweets about Youngkin being responsible and shook my head. From a former traffic reporter standpoint that was a no win situation for whomever was in charge. Rapid cooling and heavy snow after rain most of the day. Throw in the Monday after a major holiday period where a large portion of the east coast was trying to get back home from vacations. That stretch of 95 is horrible on a normal weekend anyway.

And it was the first snow of the season. We all know how that works....

[gehringer_2]

27 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think a lot of positive things that happen in the country are due to the "deep state".  The government is our largest employer.  Just like any large organization, there are many good employees and some bad employees.  The people at the top get all the credit, but it's usually some unknown people that do most of the work.  

yeah - the right's idea that you can reduce the role of government is basically a chimera. Work on making it work better, stop with the fantasy that's it's the enemy or that it's going to go away - it's a counter-productive waste of energy. If the government is the enemy in a democracy that means the people are the enemy - it just makes no sense as political theory.

Edited January 9, 2022 by gehringer_2