Tiger337 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Humor for stat nerds: https://www.theonion.com/cdc-announces-plan-to-send-every-u-s-household-pamphle-1848354068?fbclid=IwAR2xXMJ93fLKlEJrdgBnmKrb_CSxRJ-t8UyHvFc2-SOFGJXuhg3svcn0upY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: well sure - in the most global sense, but if we are talking about health and safety regulatory mandates, you aren't arguing they exist for private citizens in their homes are you? i'm stating osha doesnt have the authority to regulate your behavior - or your use of ladders - outside the workplace. so the argument is they dont have the authority to tell you to get a vaccine in order to go to work. especially in settings where it is not likely at all that you'll get covid (like most workplaces). the other case held that the department of health had the power to regulate hospitals' employees health and interactions to protect medicare and medicaid patients so they said hospitals could mandate a vaccine. again, nothing is precluding your employer from telling you that you have to get the vaccine to go to work at this point. its just a ruling that refuses to lift the stay on the enforcement of osha's vaccine mandate until the 6th circuit rules on its constitutionality/legality. as a reminder, osha currently has no other vaccine requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, ewsieg said: I contend the vaccination rate is better if Trump is president. His base is leading him now in terms of 'anti-vax' and they boo him when he says he's vaxxed and boosted, but I think if he won, he would have been saying it's the "Trump's vaccine" and at that time, his folks follow him. While there would have been some dem hesitancy initially with the vax, I don't think they are as f'd up as the GOP, and come around and endorse it as well. Trump was turning down hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine while he was president. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-white-house-covid-vaccine-pfizer-b1768013.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 i should say that the argument is that osha does not have the authority... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 With respect to more ppl being Vaxd if Trump were president, currently it is GOP policy to pay people to not get vaccinated. In multiple states they are giving unemployment to people not working because they wouldn't comply with any mandate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, buddha said: i should say that the argument is that osha does not have the authority... OK - fair enough if you can make a reasoned argument that a vaccination is different in kind to the other kinds of behavioral compliance that OSHA's authority does indeed extend to in the workplace, but that would not be because of anything that does or doesn't go on outside the workplace - it would be because the rule in some other definable way is defective - extends past OSHA powers. IOW it may be a badly arrived at rule, but not because I face the same risk outside the workplace. OSHA clearly does have the power to regulate a worker's exposure to a risk in the workplace that he/she may also face outside the workplace. That is not a criterion that proscribes OSHA's regulatory powers. Edited January 14, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) Actually a better example that goes to directly to the argument about the employee's active choice not to protect themselves outside the workplace would be hearing protection. You may go home every night and blast Twisted Sister on your ear buds at 110db, but OSHA still requires your employer to provide you with an 80db time weighted sound environment or provide hearing protection, even if it's doing nothing to actually preserve your hearing because you are killing it on your own time. The basis of the objection has to be in the nature of the compliance required. In the above case you will be required to wear ear plugs where it's noisy, but what if OSHA said you needed to have your ears surgically modified? The latter clearly fails a reasonableness test, the former does not. So where do you place a vaccination on that scale and is there any kind of bright line to make it clear? Edited January 14, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 12 hours ago, ewsieg said: I contend the vaccination rate is better if Trump is president. His base is leading him now in terms of 'anti-vax' and they boo him when he says he's vaxxed and boosted, but I think if he won, he would have been saying it's the "Trump's vaccine" and at that time, his folks follow him. While there would have been some dem hesitancy initially with the vax, I don't think they are as f'd up as the GOP, and come around and endorse it as well. I don't know if more people would be vaxxed if Trump was in office. Dem supporters would be against it then. Harris and a few other dems started this when they said they weren't taking any vaccine that came from the Trump admin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 13 hours ago, ewsieg said: I contend the vaccination rate is better if Trump is president. His base is leading him now in terms of 'anti-vax' and they boo him when he says he's vaxxed and boosted, but I think if he won, he would have been saying it's the "Trump's vaccine" and at that time, his folks follow him. While there would have been some dem hesitancy initially with the vax, I don't think they are as f'd up as the GOP, and come around and endorse it as well. I was referring to the availability of the vaccine outside the US due to the efforts of the Biden administration, such as they are, to distribute it. If Trump had successfully stolen the election, I imagine there would be far less distribution for the vax worldwide. As to your point, I could see Trump both slagging the idea of getting the vaccine while talking to red hats and their thought leaders, while claiming credit for the vaccine while talking to everyone else. He unabashedly tailors different messages for different audiences, and makes no effort at consistency because he succeeds on his own terms without doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 11 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Humor for stat nerds: https://www.theonion.com/cdc-announces-plan-to-send-every-u-s-household-pamphle-1848354068?fbclid=IwAR2xXMJ93fLKlEJrdgBnmKrb_CSxRJ-t8UyHvFc2-SOFGJXuhg3svcn0upY I read that fast and slow, and it was funny both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Archie said: I don't know if more people would be vaxxed if Trump was in office. Dem supporters would be against it then. Harris and a few other dems started this when they said they weren't taking any vaccine that came from the Trump admin. Humoring your way of thinking, I don’t think “Dem supporters” (aka anyone who doesn’t support Trump) would be against the vaccine, if only because Trump would be publicly slagging the idea of being vaccinated to the red hats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Archie said: I don't know if more people would be vaxxed if Trump was in office. Dem supporters would be against it then. Harris and a few other dems started this when they said they weren't taking any vaccine that came from the Trump admin. Even with TFG, Fauci was a trusted source. I have little doubt Dems would have gotten vaccinated with Fauci leading the way. Bleach injection treatments on the other hand... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/16/913560563/cdc-director-says-covid-vaccine-likely-wont-be-widely-available-until-next-year In light of Archie's Earth 2.0 prognostications, it's worth revisiting (again) one of President Trump's actions during the Fall of 2020 and how it probably wasn't all that helpful if the goal was to get as many people vaccinated as possible. Specifically tying vaccine distribution to the election (contradicting his own CDC Director) was a serious mistake made by Trump. For whatever reason, people just seem to gloss over it and forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said: Even with TFG, Fauci was a trusted source. I have little doubt Dems would have gotten vaccinated with Fauci leading the way. Bleach injection treatments on the other hand... It's really not hard: people look to the CDC and the FDA for guidance on the vaccine. At the time, Robert Redfield, CDC Director, said (accurately) that the vaccine would be ready in early 2021. Donald Trump goes out, refutes that, and says that it will be ready in 'late October' (ie. before the election). In light of that, it's not exactly surprising that people wouldn't find Trump a trustworthy source on the vaccine. My standard on taking the vaccine always came down to buy-in from experts.... and for whatever reason, people just sort of gloss over how a politician (Trump) attempted to interfere with that process for political ends. And how that may have damaged trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 37 minutes ago, oblong said: Ugh. What an ignorant bastard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 minute ago, smr-nj said: Ugh. What an ignorant bastard and sadly one of the most influential people for males under 45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, oblong said: and sadly one of the most influential people for males under 45. I just don’t understand that. But, for sure, incredibly sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Who is the more despicable NewsRadio cast member: Rogan or Andy Dick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 22 hours ago, oblong said: ... In theory, making someone inject something into their body as a condition of employment sounds shady and big brother ish... Everyone entering the military is required to get 17 vaccinations in order to do so... I'm calling BS on the above sentiment. If it were the Bubonic Plague going around instead of Covid... I'm thinking there'd be a lot less anti-vaxxers... Literally... Both less, and less still amongst the living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Everyone entering the military is required to get 17 vaccinations in order to do so... I'm calling BS on the above sentiment. If it were the Bubonic Plague going around instead of Covid... I'm thinking there'd be a lot less anti-vaxxers... Literally... Both less, and less still amongst the living. it's why I said "in theory". They're free to not join. I wonder how that would hold up if we had a draft today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 21 hours ago, buddha said: i suppose if your definition of "stupid" is "disagrees with g2," then maybe. You can be smart and still have a "moment of stupidity". I agree with G2... just because a person is smart doesn't mean that they can't do something stupid. Like not getting vaxxed during a pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, oblong said: it's why I said "in theory". They're free to not join. I wonder how that would hold up if we had a draft today? Well the draft would override everything. "Tough, you're drafted, you're going to do what you're told, period." That's why they get 17 vaccinations. But also.. I wasn't talking necessarily about the choice to join or not join but, rather, the "big brother" sentiment. I don't agree with it. Is the military "shady" by requiring 17 vaccinations? I don't believe so, it's a condition of employment. Are drug tests "shady"? They are required by numerous business and governmental organizations as a condition of employment. If it were the Bubonic Plague that was the pandemic and a vaccination was required as a condition of employment, is that "shady"? I don't disagree with you that there are those who will "feel" that way but... in the immortal words of MAGA: "Fuck their feelings". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, smr-nj said: Ugh. What an ignorant bastard MMA Interviewer Joe Rogan is a terrible host. He lets these conspiracy peddlers come on his show and he throws them softball questions and acts like he's so fascinated with all the bullshit they are spewing. Then, when someone like Zepps goes on his show and pushes back he's suddenly willing to question and push back. Edited January 14, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 13 hours ago, pfife said: Trump was turning down hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine while he was president. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-white-house-covid-vaccine-pfizer-b1768013.html This is true. He turned down the option of buying these after already purchasing an option to buy quite a bit already, all before it was even approved for use. In short, the US took a gamble with several vaccines, with some not making it to market, at least not here (ie, Novavax). Was Trump's failure on Covid the fact that once vaccines were approved we didn't have any to get into the arms of folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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