1984Echoes Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 10:41 PM, Tiger337 said: The Mexican 1984Echoes Expand I approve this message... Quote
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) On 1/15/2022 at 9:10 PM, ewsieg said: lol at complaining that the Trump admin didn’t buy additional doses when they weren’t even approved yet, and then arguing that Trump shouldn’t get credit for purchasing doses that weren’t approved yet. They weren’t necessarily deliverable because again, these were purchased before they were already approved in the hopes they would be approved. As the article states, once some were approved, the Trump admin immediately began purchasing even more of the already approved ones. If you want to argue that my hypothetical is wrong, fine. You don’t even need quantitative evidence, you could simply say Trump always found a way to scare things up and honestly, I wouldn’t be able to do anything but give a nod to that argument. But if you’re going to use quantitative data, uses it correctly. Expand literally didn't buy enough actual approved doses to vaccinate more than biden has, and actually turned down enoguh to do so - and you're arguing the exact oppposite would have happened if he was president in you fake world. SMH. Its simple numbers chief, even your numbers. Use them right. Edited January 16, 2022 by pfife Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 12:44 AM, pfife said: literally didn't buy enough actual approved doses to vaccinate more than biden has, and actually turned down enoguh to do so - and you're arguing the exact oppposite would have happened if he was president in you fake world. SMH. Its simple numbers chief, even your numbers. Use them right. Expand Dude, you're failing. Based on everything above, if Trump did nothing more, or even Biden did nothing more, come February when J&J was authorized, we would have enough for 300 million people. Considering our population is about 333 million and roughly 23 million are 5 years old and younger, we would have had enough vaccine to get us at 96.7% of the vaccine eligible population as of today. So I still contend that if the GOP had Trump telling them to get the vaccine from the beginning, combined with the fact that I don't think democratic leaders would have been as irresponsible as GOP leaders, I still think the vaccination rate would be better under Trump today, than it currently is with Biden who waited almost a month after becoming POTUS to purchase additional vaccines (time to bring up impeachment charges for gross negligence, amirite?). And re-reading a portion of the khn/politfact article and I noticed the wording on the additional doses Trump purchased on December 23rd and dug into that. https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/health/pfizer-vaccine-purchase-100-million-doses/index.html Quote The agreement includes an option for an additional 400 million doses of the vaccine, HHS said. Pfizer said the US government will pay $1.95 billion for the additional 100 million doses. Expand Oh snap, enough for 300 million by the end of 2020 before we could even get it out to folks yet and an option to purchase enough for 200 million more people. So Biden's purchase was actually off of the option Trump setup. I can do this all day, that said, it won't matter. Biden could shoot someone on fifth avenue and you wouldn't care. Quote
oblong Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 10:44 PM, Tiger337 said: LarryTheSequel used to be a poster here by the way. He was one of my favorites. I think he went by the name MrMalefic or something like that. Expand Wow. I remember that name now. Quote
oblong Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 I think it was DetMaleFic. Something like that. Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 I still follow him on facebook, twitter. He posts some good stuff. He's a talented writer. Quote
Crazy Cat Gentleman Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 I thought it was DrMaleficent. Quote
oblong Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 I miss seeing old names when looking in old threads on the former site. Tigercap. WMUDan. NotoriousCPC. Moonlight Graham. funny story on moonlight. Met him at one of the gatherings. Later on after a game I notice he is next to me on MIchigan Avenue. I get his attention and he rolls down his window and I ask “are you moonlight Graham?” 1 Quote
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 1:14 AM, ewsieg said: Dude, you're failing. Based on everything above, if Trump did nothing more, or even Biden did nothing more, come February when J&J was authorized, we would have enough for 300 million people. Considering our population is about 333 million and roughly 23 million are 5 years old and younger, we would have had enough vaccine to get us at 96.7% of the vaccine eligible population as of today. So I still contend that if the GOP had Trump telling them to get the vaccine from the beginning, combined with the fact that I don't think democratic leaders would have been as irresponsible as GOP leaders, I still think the vaccination rate would be better under Trump today, than it currently is with Biden who waited almost a month after becoming POTUS to purchase additional vaccines (time to bring up impeachment charges for gross negligence, amirite?). And re-reading a portion of the khn/politfact article and I noticed the wording on the additional doses Trump purchased on December 23rd and dug into that. https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/health/pfizer-vaccine-purchase-100-million-doses/index.html Oh snap, enough for 300 million by the end of 2020 before we could even get it out to folks yet and an option to purchase enough for 200 million more people. So Biden's purchase was actually off of the option Trump setup. I can do this all day, that said, it won't matter. Biden could shoot someone on fifth avenue and you wouldn't care. Expand check your math Quote
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) Chief: Your article said this Pfizer-BioNTech: 100 million doses (two-dose regimen) Moderna: 100 million doses (two-dose regimen) Johnson & Johnson: 100 million doses (one-dose regimen) Then you said this: Quote Based on everything above, if Trump did nothing more, or even Biden did nothing more, come February when J&J was authorized, we would have enough for 300 million people. Expand Wrong. Literally what you posted would be 200 million people. Biden has vaccinated over 200 million people. unreal chief. You should at least have the basic math right before you flex. Edited January 16, 2022 by pfife Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) On 1/16/2022 at 3:06 AM, pfife said: Chief: Your article said this Pfizer-BioNTech: 100 million doses (two-dose regimen) Moderna: 100 million doses (two-dose regimen) Johnson & Johnson: 100 million doses (one-dose regimen) Then you said this: Wrong. Literally what you posted would be 200 million people. Biden has vaccinated over 200 million people. unreal chief. You should at least have the basic math right before you flex. Expand Oh man, you crack me up. We should get a beer sometime. I know it's difficult to see everything in an article when you're skimming for only portions that support your narrative. But let me help you. Paragraph 5, not because it has any basis in my argument, but because it's politifact, which you'd site against a GOP'er, but it's against you and you probably don't realize it as the only media you consume is stuff that helps confirm your already held beliefs Quote It’s been a common political message since the Biden administration took office that the initial vaccine rollout under Trump was “chaotic.” PolitiFact previously rated a claim by Biden’s chief of staff, Ron Klain, that the Trump administration left no vaccine plan behind as Mostly False. Expand Then we get to the numbers you posted above. You only selected the three that would eventually be authorized for use, but at the time, it was those plus additional totaling enough for 400 million people, per the article: Quote In all, the amounts agreed to under these contracts total about 800 million vaccine doses, or enough for more than 400 million people. Expand Then we get to your counterpoint: Quote An important point to remember, though, is that these contract numbers don’t necessarily represent deliverable vaccines. The contracts represent early promises. There were still important hurdles to be cleared before these possible vaccine candidates could be a reality. Expand They were promises because at the time, they weren't approved for use yet. But hey, let's not let nuanced understanding get in the way of a way to delegitimize the opposition. So what's next in the article: Quote Until recently, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were the only two that had reached that point, gaining authorization on Dec. 11 and 18 respectively. Expand So now Pfizer and Moderna are authorized for use as of Dec 18, 2020 I mean, i'm with you, Trump wanted to kill everyone but somehow allowed his administration to authorize it for use. Thank God he's so incompetent! Quote The Trump administration announced Dec. 23 that it would buy an additional 200 million doses in total of both companies’ vaccines. Expand WHAT?!?!?! 200 million additional doses at 2 doses per person = 100 million people 100 million people, plus the original doses which were enough for 200 million people equals... can someone help me with the math, apparently i'm bad at it? Edited January 16, 2022 by ewsieg Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 Also, since you're a fan of ignoring nuance, explain this: Has Vaccine Total Deaths Biden yes 458k Trump no 392k Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) On 1/16/2022 at 4:15 AM, ewsieg said: Also, since you're a fan of ignoring nuance, explain this: Has Vaccine Total Deaths Biden yes 458k Trump no 392k Expand And to get out in front of anyone else that thinks i'm trying to say that Trump was a good president, or that i'm saying Trump would have done better, or whatever. All i'm saying here is that the government, Trump, deep state, whatever, was actually doing some things. In no way am I saying that they did everything correct or that Trump gave the correct messaging even if his admin was doing some things right. And even if my belief that the vaccine rate would be better today under Trump, i'm not saying that Trump should be president. I'm still happy with my 'better than the alternative' vote for Biden. All I am saying is under Trump, I do think certain things would be better. Personally i'm willing to sacrifice better in some areas for democracy. The fact that I don't have to worry about the current POTUS thinking he's a monarch and has the right to do whatever he wants, and has brainwashed an entire party to abandon their beliefs allows me to sleep better at night. Still, why do some need to continue to lie about Trump when he has so many legitimate things to void him from being a serious candidate? I don't get that. Edited January 16, 2022 by ewsieg Quote
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 In all of that did you admit you were wrong? I'm really lacking motivation to read all of that when I outright know you messed up the most rudimentary math Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 11:34 AM, pfife said: In all of that did you admit you were wrong? I'm really lacking motivation to read all of that when I outright know you messed up the most rudimentary math Expand You regularly admit that you don't even bother reading posts that you don't agree with. Be better. Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 4:15 AM, ewsieg said: Also, since you're a fan of ignoring nuance, explain this: Has Vaccine Total Deaths Biden yes 458k Trump no 392k Expand Number of months of peak Covid: Biden 12 Trump 9 Massive nationwide shutdowns and social distancing Biden NO Trump YES I am not saying I was necessarily in favor of massive shutdowns, but I think they reduced the number of deaths while creating other problems that still exist. There was no good way to handle Covid. It is a huge pandemic and the biggest public health crisis of my lifetime. There was no way to avoid large numbers of deaths and suffering. Quote
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) On 1/16/2022 at 3:10 PM, ewsieg said: You regularly admit that you don't even bother reading posts that you don't agree with. Be better. Expand False, I regularly admit that I don't even bother reading posts that are a waste of my time - that contain such features as lies about Whitmer, crappy hypotheticals instead of actual reality, articles offered as support that actually belie the point if you read past 2 paragraphs, and basic mathematical miscalculations. These are all things you do quite often and repeatedly. You seem to be under some weird self-absorbed, conceited impression that I owe your posts more time that I feel like spending on them. I owe you absolutely nothing chief. Edited January 16, 2022 by pfife Quote
casimir Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:33 PM, Tiger337 said: Number of months of peak Covid: Biden 12 Trump 9 Massive nationwide shutdowns and social distancing Biden NO Trump YES I am not saying I was necessarily in favor of massive shutdowns, but I think they reduced the number of deaths while creating other problems that still exist. There was no good way to handle Covid. It is a huge pandemic and the biggest public health crisis of my lifetime. There was no way to avoid large numbers of deaths and suffering. Expand I know you are not giving some leaders a pass. But there have been some missed opportunities to minimize the impact along the way. Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:38 PM, pfife said: crappy hypotheticals instead of actual reality, articles offered as support that actually belie the point, and basic mathematical miscalculations. Expand I shouldn't let it bother me that you're refusing to look at the article which would show that as of Dec 23rd, 2020, the US would have under contract enough for 300 million people of Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J or you know it and you just choose to not admit it to be an ass. Truthfully though, it does. Quote
Tiger337 Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:39 PM, casimir said: I know you are not giving some leaders a pass. But there have been some missed opportunities to minimize the impact along the way. Expand I will never give Trump a pass for his immature self centered messaging during the pandemic. It is still hurting us today. I believe Biden's approach has been more reasonable, but it's still not working. Quote
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:46 PM, ewsieg said: I shouldn't let it bother me that you're refusing to look at the article which would show that as of Dec 23rd, 2020, the US would have under contract enough for 300 million people of Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J or you know it and you just choose to not admit it to be an ass. Truthfully though, it does. Expand Then you shouldn't repeatedly post articles that don't support what you're saying that end up wasting my time. Like you did yesterday when you posted one that said clearly said enough for 200m ppl and then argued it said 300m ppl. Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:33 PM, Tiger337 said: I am not saying I was necessarily in favor of massive shutdowns, but I think they reduced the number of deaths while creating other problems that still exist. There was no good way to handle Covid. It is a huge pandemic and the biggest public health crisis of my lifetime. There was no way to avoid large numbers of deaths and suffering. Expand To ensure I'm being understood, in no way do I feel those numbers represent who did better. My point was more about a data point that can be taken out of context. Trump's actions, on withholding his approval on the vaccine just because he felt he wasn't going to get credit for it anymore, is criminal and is the single biggest cause of all deaths since the summer of last year. Quote
casimir Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:47 PM, Tiger337 said: I will never give Trump a pass for his immature self centered messaging during the pandemic. It is still hurting us today. I believe Biden's approach has been more reasonable, but it's still not working. Expand Sure, I agree with you for the most part. I don't know where things go from here. Its not as easy as saying, well, those that are not vaccinated had their chance, so let's rip off the band aid and get back to normal. There are still poor effects happening to those that are vaccinated (indirectly for the most part) and those that are not eligible to be vaccinated. Quote
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:54 PM, pfife said: Then you shouldn't repeatedly post articles that don't support what you're saying that end up wasting my time. Like you did yesterday when you posted one that said clearly said enough for 200m ppl and then argued it said 300m ppl. Expand I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you truly believe this. Let's try again...same link: https://khn.org/news/article/fact-check-president-joe-biden-criticism-of-trump-administration-vaccine-contracts-and-supply-not-accurate/ Quote Here’s what the Trump team’s contracts called for drugmakers to supply to the U.S. government: Pfizer-BioNTech: 100 million doses (two-dose regimen) Moderna: 100 million doses (two-dose regimen) Johnson & Johnson: 100 million doses (one-dose regimen) Expand And then later: Quote Until recently, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were the only two that had reached that point, gaining authorization on Dec. 11 and 18 respectively. The Trump administration announced Dec. 23 that it would buy an additional 200 million doses in total of both companies’ vaccines. Expand So tell me where my math is wrong Original orders: Pfizer - 100 million doses = 50 million people Moderna - 100 million doses = 50 million people J&J - 100 million doses = 100 million people Additional order on 12/23 200 million doses of Pfizer and Moderna = 100 million people. 50+50+100+100=300 Quote
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