pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) speaking of not reading posts, perhaps you should adhere to the standard you impose on others. I guess we can add "double standard" to the list of features. Standards for others but not yourself. Typical of trumpers as often pointed out in this forum. Edited January 16, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) And just for the record, that was after you tried to equate a bunch of unapproved but contracted doses as "enough to vaccinate people" which would be that lie stuff I mentioned, which was also mentioned in your article that you posted, which also would be that "read past 2 paragraphs" thing I mentioned. Then when you then expect me to give you my time, and expect me to treat your posts as if this crap doesn't happen, no sale chief. Your posts get as much of my time and attention as I want to give you. Edited January 16, 2022 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, pfife said: speaking of not reading posts, perhaps you should adhere to the standard you impose on others. I guess we can add "double standard" to the list of features. Standards for others but not yourself. Typical of trumpers as often pointed out in this forum. Good grief, I read what you wrote. I pointed out that you missed the part in the article that says the Trump administration bough an additional 200 doses of Pfizer and Moderna, which is enough for 100 million more people. Hence the 200 million figure you posted, plus enough for 100 million = the 300 million number I noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 no i didn't miss the mop up job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, pfife said: And just for the record, that was after you tried to equate a bunch of unapproved but contracted doses as "enough to vaccinate people" which would be that lie stuff I mentioned, which was also mentioned in your article that you posted, which also would be that "read past 2 paragraphs" thing I mentioned. I specifically said 300 million doses that would eventually get approved. J&J didn't get approved until after Trump was out of office. Which is why I said if Trump didn't do anything further after 12/23, or Biden did nothing further once he became POTUS, we would have had 300 million by February 2021 (I just realized I've said 2020 in error previously). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 42 minutes ago, ewsieg said: To ensure I'm being understood, in no way do I feel those numbers represent who did better. My point was more about a data point that can be taken out of context. Trump's actions, on withholding his approval on the vaccine just because he felt he wasn't going to get credit for it anymore, is criminal and is the single biggest cause of all deaths since the summer of last year. I actually don't recall Trump's withholding approval of the vaccine. I am not doubting it as it fits in with all of his other self serving transgressions. I just don't remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I actually don't recall Trump's withholding approval of the vaccine. I am not doubting it as it fits in with all of his other self serving transgressions. I just don't remember it. I'm saying 'withholding' in terms of messaging to his base, not physically withholding it from the public. My hypothetical that pfife is so upset about is that I feel that if Trump won, once available, Trump would have pushed people to go get their 'Trump vaccine', instead of doing what he ended up doing as being a sore loser is more important to him than the lives of his base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 15 hours ago, ewsieg said: Also, since you're a fan of ignoring nuance, explain this: Has Vaccine Total Deaths Biden yes 458k Trump no 392k But all those deaths under Biden are unvaccinated Republicans. Nothing Biden can do about peoples' stupidity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I will never give Trump a pass for his immature self centered messaging during the pandemic. It is still hurting us today. I believe Biden's approach has been more reasonable, but it's still not working. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, ewsieg said: I'm saying 'withholding' in terms of messaging to his base, not physically withholding it from the public. My hypothetical that pfife is so upset about is that I feel that if Trump won, once available, Trump would have pushed people to go get their 'Trump vaccine', instead of doing what he ended up doing as being a sore loser is more important to him than the lives of his base. This is also true. But I like your other post even more in which you said that you supported/ voted in the name of democracy over the possibility of a slight improvement in one area of policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) He's off to a good start🤨 This is what happens if you elect a businessperson with no government experience Edited January 17, 2022 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1549017/wuhan-lab-leak-covid-origin-china-matt-ridley-scientist-crackdown I mean, at what point is it just going to be generally accepted that the lab leak is the most likely cause of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 21 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I will never give Trump a pass for his immature self centered messaging during the pandemic. It is still hurting us today. I believe Biden's approach has been more reasonable, but it's still not working. Granting for the discussion that Biden’s approach is not working, how much of that is due to his own and his administration’s incompetence, and how much of it is due to Republican obstruction? Also granting that R was never going to cooperate under any circumstances, what could Biden have done, within solely his power, that would have significantly reduced cases, hospitalizations, and deaths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) So let me get this straight... the same people who bitch and moan about lax enforcement of immigration law in this country find it a crime against humanity when other countries execute immigration law as they see fit? Edited January 17, 2022 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Granting for the discussion that Biden’s approach is not working, how much of that is due to his own and his administration’s incompetence, and how much of it is due to Republican obstruction? Also granting that R was never going to cooperate under any circumstances, what could Biden have done, within solely his power, that would have significantly reduced cases, hospitalizations, and deaths? I think it mostly has to do with a massive pandemic that was going to cause a lot of death and suffering regardless. The second most blame goes to Trump dismissing the severity of the pandemic to protect his presidency. As for Biden, his messaging was a lot better, but it seemed like getting vaccines out to people was very slow and it's still slow. Getting a booster was not easy. Getting testing kits hsas not been easy. Could they have done better? I don't really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Granting for the discussion that Biden’s approach is not working, how much of that is due to his own and his administration’s incompetence, and how much of it is due to Republican obstruction? Also granting that R was never going to cooperate under any circumstances, what could Biden have done, within solely his power, that would have significantly reduced cases, hospitalizations, and deaths? He screwed the pooch on testing. Complete incompetence. The argument is we had vaccines, we expected folks to take those. That said, we were told from the beginning this virus can have variants. We were not prepared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think it mostly has to do with a massive pandemic that was going to cause a lot of death and suffering regardless. The second most blame goes to Trump dismissing the severity of the pandemic to protect his presidency. As for Biden, his messaging was a lot better, but it seemed like getting vaccines out to people was very slow and it's still slow. Getting a booster was not easy. Getting testing kits hsas not been easy. Could they have done better? I don't really know. I'll defend Biden on the vaccine rollout. Early they just didn't have enough vaccines made. As for the booster, I didn't realize anyone had trouble getting that. Did you end up getting that right as soon as they approved it? Wonder if there was an early run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I'll defend Biden on the vaccine rollout. Early they just didn't have enough vaccines made. As for the booster, I didn't realize anyone had trouble getting that. Did you end up getting that right as soon as they approved it? Wonder if there was an early run. I got it in late December. It wasn't as hard as getting the original shot, but I had to search around for it. Edited January 17, 2022 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 Was access to testing completely dependent on Biden? Was he the difference Maybe it was, I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of it. I do know that they were really conservative about allowing heathy people under 65 to get the vaccine and booster, which may have led to marginally more hospitalizations and deaths, although I always thought that was more CDC reticence than administration incompetence. Could Biden have overruled them by executive order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: So let me get this straight... the same people who bitch and moan about lax enforcement of immigration law in this country find it a crime against humanity when other countries execute immigration law as they see fit? Yup, pretty incredible how folks can manage to bend their minds to make things 'work' their way. Rules are rules, he got an exemption, but it doesn't hold up to their federal courts. I thought I heard he now as a 3 year ban now though. That seems excessive, I didn't read about it enough to know if he tried something unethical or whatever to get that exemption. On the flip side, he's already had Covid. At some point, confirmed Covid cases need to count for something, right? Plus it's just 1 guy. We have 170,000 to 200,000 a month coming through the southern border and they haven't caused any Covid issues at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: Was access to testing completely dependent on Biden? Was he the difference Maybe it was, I don’t know. I wasn’t aware of it. I do know that they were really conservative about allowing heathy people under 65 to get the vaccine and booster, which may have led to marginally more hospitalizations and deaths, although I always thought that was more CDC reticence than administration incompetence. Could Biden have overruled them by executive order? I think if early on the administration put some guildelines out on testing, for instance, giving public schools a roadmap on how they use federal money they got towards testing, how/when to test, etc, they could have kept more schools open and for open schools, kept students in them. Both of my kids have missed school days this year (oldest was fully vaxxed before the school year started) due to the fact that I couldn't find tests. Both of my kids would have missed considerably more school if I hadn't purchased tests on my dime. I'm in a position that isn't an issue, but many people can't afford to shell out the $10-15 per child, per day, cost to keep their kids in school. Add in some schools that took too long to open, despite the science saying it's safe for kids to go to school. As for the conservative approach, I was still under the impression that was more of a supply and demand issue early on and ensuring we were targeting the most vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 The Youngkin mask mandate rollback is looking like it will cause some violence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 My white daughter —age early teens—- is waiting in a pharmacy with me for her booster. My African American brother — age 48– is already boosted. Because of critical race theory and wokism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Prior infection should not be considered when discussing immunity and setting rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, oblong said: Prior infection should not be considered when discussing immunity and setting rules. I'm not arguing it should, but shouldn't there at least be a discussion about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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