Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[CMRivdogs]

WTF

 

[buddha]

3 hours ago, Kacie said:

True, not many white, middle class or better Americans could.  I mean not the African American ones.  Too many in this country don't have a place to live or food to eat or medical care.  Doesn't seem like the USA is all that "rich".  

I thought this summed up the false perception versus reality very well:

“I asked Wharton students what they thought the average American worker makes per year and 25% of them thought it was over six figures,” Nina Strohminger tweeted late Wednesday. “One of them thought it was $800k.”

well if wharton students think that way then EVERYBODY thinks that way.

america is a better place to live for black americans than almost every country on the planet.  theyre wealthier, live in larger homes with access to better health care, better education, and better consumer goods.  especially if theyre gay or lesbian.

there are a handful of countries that are on the same level as the united states when it comes to these issues.  your familiarty with this country breeds your contempt.

america is far from perfect, but what country is perfect?  

[ewsieg]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/590411-cdc-study-shows-prior-covid-19-infection-and-vaccines-protected-against

So it looks like, at least early on, natural immunity provides better protection than the vaccine.  Before folks freak out, they smartly point out that the vaccine provides good protection after the fact AND provides protection against that first Covid infection as well, so i'm not saying it's the better option.

Not mentioned in this article, but I only learned when I saw the news on the folk singer that died after she got Covid on purpose, is that the EU counts prior infection when trying to obtain their Covid passport.  

I know the argument is if we allow it, then people will justify it for not getting the vaccine.  But the other argument in terms of how long immunity lasts, we don't know with the shots either.  

[oblong]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/590411-cdc-study-shows-prior-covid-19-infection-and-vaccines-protected-against

So it looks like, at least early on, natural immunity provides better protection than the vaccine.  Before folks freak out, they smartly point out that the vaccine provides good protection after the fact AND provides protection against that first Covid infection as well, so i'm not saying it's the better option.

Not mentioned in this article, but I only learned when I saw the news on the folk singer that died after she got Covid on purpose, is that the EU counts prior infection when trying to obtain their Covid passport.  

I know the argument is if we allow it, then people will justify it for not getting the vaccine.  But the other argument in terms of how long immunity lasts, we don't know with the shots either.  

she's precisely why it shouldn't be considered 'clear' in place of a vaccine.  Maybe she would have relented and gotten the vaccine instead.  To my knowledge nobody has died from the vaccine.   People are bad at math.

 

[Tiger337]

12 hours ago, buddha said:

well if wharton students think that way then EVERYBODY thinks that way.

america is a better place to live for black americans than almost every country on the planet.  theyre wealthier, live in larger homes with access to better health care, better education, and better consumer goods.  especially if theyre gay or lesbian.

there are a handful of countries that are on the same level as the united states when it comes to these issues.  your familiarty with this country breeds your contempt.

america is far from perfect, but what country is perfect?  

America is a very wealthy country in aggregate.  Those who hold the money allow the poor to have just enough, so they won't harm the wealthy.  It is very difficult for Blacks to get into the ruling class.  The world is a bad place if you are not White.  We focus on the United States because that is what we can control.  There are big inequities that need to be addressed regardless of whether there are other countries that are worse.  

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

she's precisely why it shouldn't be considered 'clear' in place of a vaccine.  Maybe she would have relented and gotten the vaccine instead.  To my knowledge nobody has died from the vaccine.   People are bad at math.

 

The sliver lining of this is the dummies who don't get vaxxed will in a way be vaxxed once they recover.

[buddha]

11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

America is a very wealthy country in aggregate.  Those who hold the money allow the poor to have just enough, so they won't harm the wealthy.  It is very difficult for Blacks to get into the ruling class.  The world is a bad place if you are not White.  We focus on the United States because that is what we can control.  There are big inequities that need to be addressed regardless of whether there are other countries that are worse.  

all those issues exist in every country and are not unique to the united states.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[oblong]

5 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

The sliver lining of this is the dummies who don't get vaxxed will in a way be vaxxed once they recover.

and many of them will die trying.  I don't like the idea of in any way giving someone an excuse to avoid a vaccine.

 

[oblong]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

hopefully she's been arrested already?

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, buddha said:

all those issues exist in every country and are not unique to the united states.

They should still be addressed.  Many countries don't have the resources to fix it.  We do.  

[Tigeraholic1]

23 minutes ago, oblong said:

and many of them will die trying.  I don't like the idea of in any way giving someone an excuse to avoid a vaccine.

 

Agreed but here we are......

[buddha]

26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

They should still be addressed.  Many countries don't have the resources to fix it.  We do.  

all countries technically have the ability to "fix the problem" of the rich getting rich because of connections and then not transferring that to the poor.  but no country has ever solved that issue because all countries are run by human beings.

american capitalism is particularly harsh in many respects, harsher than other countries.  an expanded social safety net could ameliorate many of those issues.  but we are not alone in having those issues, and those of us who live here - yes, even black people - do pretty well compared to other countries.

the united states is not a bad place to live.

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

all countries technically have the ability to "fix the problem" of the rich getting rich because of connections and then not transferring that to the poor.  but no country has ever solved that issue because all countries are run by human beings.

american capitalism is particularly harsh in many respects, harsher than other countries.  an expanded social safety net could ameliorate many of those issues.  but we are not alone in having those issues, and those of us who live here - yes, even black people - do pretty well compared to other countries.

the united states is not a bad place to live.

It's not a bad place to live in.  We are not exceptional like we pretend to be.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

all those issues exist in every country and are not unique to the united states.

they are in generally worse here than in most 1st world countries. Economic inequality by most measures, which was not that much different in the US than Europe in the past, has grown steadily worse in the US in recent years.

https://wol.iza.org/articles/measuring-income-inequality/long#:~:text=The most commonly used inequality,top end of the distribution.

https://wid.world/news-article/why-is-europe-more-equal-than-the-united-states/#:~:text=Key-results%3A,to 21% in the US.

[buddha]

24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's not a bad place to live in.  We are not exceptional like we pretend to be.  

so again, your issue isnt with the united states, its with your perception that some americans think were "exceptional."

we are "different," not exceptional.  that said, its a really nice place to live.  not the best, not perfect, not without problems, but pretty good considering everything.

[buddha]

16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

they are in generally worse here than in most 1st world countries. Economic inequality by most measures, which was not that much different in the US than Europe in the past, has grown steadily worse in the US in recent years.

https://wol.iza.org/articles/measuring-income-inequality/long#:~:text=The most commonly used inequality,top end of the distribution.

https://wid.world/news-article/why-is-europe-more-equal-than-the-united-states/#:~:text=Key-results%3A,to 21% in the US.

yeah, despite bernie sanders' dreams, the us is not the same as a tiny country in north western europe with a homogeneous population, no immigrants, sitting on a bed of oil, and no military concerns because a big ol' country an ocean away guarantees their safety.

well damn.  you got me.

shit man, why dont you trot out luxembourg to show everyone how poor we are, lol?

but seriously, i question whether the "gini coefficient" means much and whether the goal of society should be "everyone must have equal incomes."

the us is a great place to be rich and - in comparison to many of its peers - not the best place to be poor.  

we'll see if the restrictions on immigration and the lack of families having children leads to the us having severe labor shortages.  that will likely drive wage gains and might decrease some of the dreaded inequality that worries us comfortably middle class people from the comfort of our keyboards.

[Motown Bombers]

I got it, in order for the US to be compared to other countries it needs to be similar in size and diversity. So when you say it's better than third world countries, you really can't make that comparison since the US is much larger and non-homogenous. 

[gehringer_2]

30 minutes ago, buddha said:

yeah, despite bernie sanders' dreams, the us is not the same as a tiny country in north western europe with a homogeneous population, no immigrants, sitting on a bed of oil, and no military concerns because a big ol' country an ocean away guarantees their safety.

well damn.  you got me.

shit man, why dont you trot out luxembourg to show everyone how poor we are, lol?

but seriously, i question whether the "gini coefficient" means much and whether the goal of society should be "everyone must have equal incomes."

the us is a great place to be rich and - in comparison to many of its peers - not the best place to be poor.  

we'll see if the restrictions on immigration and the lack of families having children leads to the us having severe labor shortages.  that will likely drive wage gains and might decrease some of the dreaded inequality that worries us comfortably middle class people from the comfort of our keyboards.

what you ignore with your list of difference is that despite those differences, inequality was not as bad here 30 yrs ago as it is today. The point is we are getting worse faster than other places and as long as we keep claiming everything is hunky-dory because we are so unique and have problems no-one else does, we give ourselves the excuse to not address our problems.

41 minutes ago, buddha said:

so again, your issue isnt with the united states, its with your perception that some americans think were "exceptional."

and yes, this is a very big part of the problem - the people who will never admit that everything isn't roses stand in the way of addressing problems as much as anything. The belief in 'exceptionalism' gives Americans the excuse to look around and say we needn't pay attention to what any other country in the world is having success with because 1)it couldn't possible be more success if it's somewhere else, and 2) even if it is what they do can't possible inform our decisions as to what we should do because we are soooo special.

This a very destructive mindset America has gotten into. Historically - meaning pre-WWII, the US was more than willing to look around the world and import the best models it found anywhere. The genius of America was to take what it found anywhere, use it and improve it.  The refusal to keep doing that has been our peril.

Edited January 21, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Archie]

Biden admin is requiring all essential people crossing borders into US to be vaccinated.  I wonder who will be checking the southern border since that's where most crossing occur?

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-11-23/us-to-require-vaccines-for-all-border-crossers-in-january

[Tiger337]

36 minutes ago, buddha said:

so again, your issue isnt with the united states, its with your perception that some americans think were "exceptional."

we are "different," not exceptional.  that said, its a really nice place to live.  not the best, not perfect, not without problems, but pretty good considering everything.

I don't have a problem with the United States.  I have a problem with greed, selfishness, racism, inequity, lack of empathy, etc  I know these things exist everywhere, but that doesn't mean they can't be addressed.  Incremental improvements are always possible.  

[buddha]

41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

what you ignore with your list of difference is that despite those differences, inequality was not as bad here 30 yrs ago as it is today. The point is we are getting worse faster than other places and as long as we keep claiming everything is hunky-dory because we are so unique and have problems no-one else does, we give ourselves the excuse to not address our problems.

and yes, this is a very big part of the problem - the people who will never admit that everything isn't roses stand in the way of addressing problems as much as anything. The belief in 'exceptionalism' gives Americans the excuse to look around and say we needn't pay attention to what any other country in the world is having success with because 1)it couldn't possible be more success if it's somewhere else, and 2) even if it is what they do can't possible inform our decisions as to what we should do because we are soooo special.

This a very destructive mindset America has gotten into. Historically - meaning pre-WWII, the US was more than willing to look around the world and import the best models it found anywhere. The genius of America was to take what it found anywhere, use it and improve it.  The refusal to keep doing that has been our peril.

if you think the mindset of exceptionalism - whatever that means - is exclusive to america, i suggest you spend some time elsewhere.  you'll find xenophobia, racism, homophobia, and unfettered nationalism exists in lots of places.

again, people who constantly bleat about america is the greatest yadda yadda yadda are annoying.  but that is not exclusive to america.  you just notice it because you live here and youre an american so you know all the flaws in our country.

if you lived in portugal you'd be complaining about henry the navigator and all those people saying portugal is so great.

[buddha]

41 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't have a problem with the United States.  I have a problem with greed, selfishness, racism, inequity, lack of empathy, etc  I know these things exist everywhere, but that doesn't mean they can't be addressed.  Incremental improvements are always possible.  

and you have had a lot more incremental improvements (and huge improvements) in many of those things here than anywhere else in the world.  that's my point.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

what you ignore with your list of difference is that despite those differences, inequality was not as bad here 30 yrs ago as it is today. The point is we are getting worse faster than other places and...

Reaganomics and other Republican attacks against the Middle Class and Lower Class for the past 40+ years.

[pfife]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

Biden admin is requiring all essential people crossing borders into US to be vaccinated.  I wonder who will be checking the southern border since that's where most crossing occur?

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-11-23/us-to-require-vaccines-for-all-border-crossers-in-january

Right?  Last I heard it was 300million people have crossed!