Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[Jim Cowan]

I haven't heard any of Neil Young's stuff about GMO's.  My objection is that you can't save some of your seeds to plant next year's crop, which we have been doing for about 10,000 years.  Those seeds belong to Monsanto, you have to buy seed from them every year.  Not that some farmers weren't already doing this anyway before GMO, if you are growing some sort of hybrid crop you were probably already buying seed from a big seed company every year.  But that was a choice that the individual farmer could make.  With Monsanto there is no choice, and if they detect some of their GMO DNA in your crop they will sue you.  So, yields are higher but there is a new layer of debt every spring that has been added to the business model of agriculture in India among other places. 

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I haven't heard any of Neil Young's stuff about GMO's.  My objection is that you can't save some of your seeds to plant next year's crop, which we have been doing for about 10,000 years.  Those seeds belong to Monsanto, you have to buy seed from them every year.  Not that some farmers weren't already doing this anyway before GMO, if you are growing some sort of hybrid crop you were probably already buying seed from a big seed company every year.  But that was a choice that the individual farmer could make.  With Monsanto there is no choice, and if they detect some of their GMO DNA in your crop they will sue you.  So, yields are higher but there is a new layer of debt every spring that has been added to the business model of agriculture in India among other places. 

interesting point.

No State of MI report today but cases today have hit their lowest level in several weeks in Washtenaw county.

Edited January 25, 2022 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

I’m done predicting but that matches the macomb wastewater findings last week which they say is a precursor to case counts. I’m certain we were facing a backlog from the labs from the big holiday rush.  Of course with test shortages and wait times we were probably undercounting by a lot. There is a testing site on my running route that was packed for a few weeks. Last 10 days it hasn’t been. It shares office space with other medical offices so even with some cars it may not tell the whole story. 

[Tigerbomb13]

 

[buddha]

i dont care about stockton's politics, i do care about isiah putting 44 on stockton's overrated ass.

[chasfh]

On 1/24/2022 at 5:27 PM, gehringer_2 said:

America will remain a racist nation as long as it remains a segregated nation - that is the true test. And America today is not much less segregated today than in 1922.

You and I are generally on the same side of things, but I have to call BS on this claim.

There is a humongous difference between 1922 and 2022. In 1922, races were segregated by law, and in practically every American state and territory. Black people could not live within certain, and outside of certain other, neighborhoods; could not stay in "white" hotels; could not eat in "white" restaurants; could not shop in certain stores; could not hold political office; could not even vote in many jurisdictions. Some places required all black people to be off the street by sundown. All by law. None of this exists now, and this circumstance itself has been prohibited by subsequent law and court rulings. That by itself is a huge difference between then and now. And that doesn't contemplate that businesses would not hire black people for any but the most menial jobs, that black people would be routinely lynched without provocation and its perpetrators openly protected by the prevailing power structure and its enforcement apparatus, or, on a softer note, that blacks were almost never represented as actual human beings in popular culture. None of this is a factor anymore.

I think you know that I understand that there is still what should be considered an unacceptable degree of segregation resulting from the conditions of a century ago, and that de facto institutional racism exists in place of de jure institutional racism in many circumstances. Work, much work, needs to be done to erode all such remaining barriers for all people, regardless of their identity, background, beliefs, or choices.

But even considering the considerable barriers that do still exist, and even now in 2022, black people, and other people of color, are not prevented by law from doing any of the things I list out above. We are not a perfectly desegregated country by any definition, and may not be even by the time our grandchildren die off, but we are certainly much less segregated today than in 1922.

[RandyMarsh]

His Kids are likely to grow up without a Father cause he refuses to give up his stance and get the vaccine. 

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

You and I are generally on the same side of things, but I have to call BS on this claim.

There is a humongous difference between 1922 and 2022. In 1922, races were segregated by law, and in practically every American state and territory. Black people could not live within certain, and outside of certain other, neighborhoods; could not stay in "white" hotels; could not eat in "white" restaurants; could not shop in certain stores; could not hold political office; could not even vote in many jurisdictions. Some places required all black people to be off the street by sundown. All by law. None of this exists now, and this circumstance itself has been prohibited by subsequent law and court rulings. That by itself is a huge difference between then and now. And that doesn't contemplate that businesses would not hire black people for any but the most menial jobs, that black people would be routinely lynched without provocation and its perpetrators openly protected by the prevailing power structure and its enforcement apparatus, or, on a softer note, that blacks were almost never represented as actual human beings in popular culture. None of this is a factor anymore.

I think you know that I understand that there is still what should be considered an unacceptable degree of segregation resulting from the conditions of a century ago, and that de facto institutional racism exists in place of de jure institutional racism in many circumstances. Work, much work, needs to be done to erode all such remaining barriers for all people, regardless of their identity, background, beliefs, or choices.

But even considering the considerable barriers that do still exist, and even now in 2022, black people, and other people of color, are not prevented by law from doing any of the things I list out above. We are not a perfectly desegregated country by any definition, and may not be even by the time our grandchildren die off, but we are certainly much less segregated today than in 1922.

I don't disagree with what you catalog here, but I'll specify that I'm talking residential  segregation.  We are much more integrated publicly, but the basic question is whether America is still a racist nation, and I would argue that despite all the changes that you note since 1922, it still hasn't changed that basic calculus that White American move away from where Black Americans live and we are still a vastly privately segregated county. That is the one irreducible part of the equation that, despite all the changes in law, and *public* behavior, which have certainly made life for Blacks in America much better, tell me that at heart, this country still harbors a fundamental racist bias. And I would argue that on a residential basis, this country is at best only marginally less segregated by where people live, go to school or go to church, than 100 yrs ago.

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't disagree with what you catalog here, but I'll specify that I'm talking residential  segregation.  We are much more integrated publicly, but the basic question is whether America is still a racist nation, and I would argue that despite all the changes that you note since 1922, it still hasn't changed that basic calculus that White American move away from where Black Americans live and we are still a vastly privately segregated county. That is the one irreducible part of the equation that, despite all the changes in law, and *public* behavior, which have certainly made life for Blacks in America much better, tell me that at heart, this country still harbors a fundamental racist bias. And I would argue that on a residential basis, this country is at best only marginally less segregated by where people live, go to school or go to church, than 100 yrs ago.

Fair enough. Especially true in places like Detroit (where you are) and Chicago (where I am, my specific neighborhood excepted).

Churches were never successfully integrated, in no small part because they were safe havens for black people to congregate and speak their minds. Schools are interesting in that there was probably increasing integration there through a certain point post-Brown, but has since turned back around.

[buddha]

6 hours ago, chasfh said:

Fair enough. Especially true in places like Detroit (where you are) and Chicago (where I am, my specific neighborhood excepted).

Churches were never successfully integrated, in no small part because they were safe havens for black people to congregate and speak their minds. Schools are interesting in that there was probably increasing integration there through a certain point post-Brown, but has since turned back around.

my daughters' school is 43% white, 33% hispanic, 10% black, and 4% asian.  that's pretty integrated.

northside prep is the best high school in the state, its 31% white, 30% hispanic, 20% asian, and 10% black.  that's pretty integrated too.  walter payton (the second best high school in the state...yes, its named after a football player where do you think you live?) is 44% white, 21% hispanic, 20% asian, and 10% black.

i live right on the border of albany park and lincoln square.  albany park is 45% hispanic, 32% white, 15% asian and 5% black.  pretty integrated.  lincoln square (much wealthier) is 65% white, 18% hispanic, 9% asian, and 3% black.  not so much.

humboldt park is 49% hispanic, 23% white, 23% black, and 1% asian.

englewood, by contrast, is 94% black and 4% hispanic.

the city as a whole is 33% white, 29% black, 28% hispanic, and 6% asian.  with the black population shrinking dramatically and the asian population growing quickly.  

a few pockets of "diverse" neighborhoods here and there, but you can still divide the city into thirds with blacks to the south, whites to the north, and hispanics to the west.  its not universal by any means, but that general split still applies.

 

[chasfh]

According to this, Detroit is the most segregated city in America, and Chicago is fourth:

https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-cities

If you widen the lens to entire metro area, Chicago is #2, and Detroit is #4:

https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-metro-regions

They measure on a census tract basis, which neighborhoods like Humboldt contain maybe a dozen or two. So it’s possible that individual tracts may reflect a high degree of segregation, but when you add them all up, they paint a slightly different picture overall. I can see where that could be true of Humboldt specifically.

I can also see where neighborhoods like mine and yours could be as integrated as they are but when they are added to all the other census tracts in the city or the metro area, which may be overwhelmingly segregated, it might not be enough to significantly bring them down the lists above.

 

[buddha]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

According to this, Detroit is the most segregated city in America, and Chicago is fourth:

https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-cities

If you widen the lens to entire metro area, Chicago is #2, and Detroit is #4:

https://belonging.berkeley.edu/most-least-segregated-metro-regions

They measure on a census tract basis, which neighborhoods like Humboldt contain maybe a dozen or two. So it’s possible that individual tracts may reflect a high degree of segregation, but when you add them all up, they paint a slightly different picture overall. I can see where that could be true of Humboldt specifically.

I can also see where neighborhoods like mine and yours could be as integrated as they are but when they are added to all the other census tracts in the city or the metro area, which may be overwhelmingly segregated, it might not be enough to significantly bring them down the lists above.

 

oh yeah definitely.  i was picking and choosing neighborhoods where you and i live as well as magnet high schools that are by application only.  those draw from all over the city.  

to go further into what you said, lakeview is 77% white, lincoln park is 78% white.  our old friend bucktown is now 73% white.

conversely, garfield park is 91% black, austin is 84% black, and south shore is 93% black.  with almost 0 white population.

little village is 84% hispanic, pilsen is still 70% hispanic but whitey has turned east pilsen into coffee shop land and its now 20% gringo.

all in all, pretty segregated.  and pretty segregated in a specific fashion with black neighborhoods being very segregated.  hispanic neighborhoods are gentrfying and white neighborhoods are getting sizeable hispanic populations, but poor black neighborhoods remain extremely segregated (although bronzeville is getting a little more diverse now as white folks move in) and the nicer whiter neighborhoods are still largely devoid of any black people.

[gehringer_2]

9 hours ago, buddha said:

my daughters' school ...

 

Income segregation is guaranteed by the way we have done suburban housing development for decades. Most all tracts have only 4 or 5 models all in pretty much in a tight price range. About the only place I think you see a wide range of size of houses built together in a neighborhood were residential areas of cities built mostly before WWII or even back in the 1920's

[ewsieg]

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/1/24/a-new-international-health-order-is-within-reach

 

Quote

As rich countries hoard vaccines and big pharmaceutical companies make super-profits by refusing to share technology, Cuba has declared its commitment to share its vaccines through open licensing and at low prices. It has begun exporting the two home-grown vaccines to multiple countries in need and, importantly, plans to send teams to Vietnam and Iran to support technology transfer to aid the countries in producing the vaccines domestically.

If their vaccines are as effective as their studies show, or even close, this is great news for the World. 

[Jim Cowan]

20 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/1/24/a-new-international-health-order-is-within-reach

 

If their vaccines are as effective as their studies show, or even close, this is great news for the World. 

I hope that it is true that their vaccines are effective.  Good for them.

[ewsieg]

10 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

I hope that it is true that their vaccines are effective.  Good for them.

If true, good for the world.  Imagine the leadership the US could have exuded if we made moves to do this with vaccines we know are effective.

[chasfh]

From the Department of Follow the Money:

 

 

[CMRivdogs]

That didn't take long

https://coronaviruswarroom.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/VAPOC-CVWRMemoResultsJan22.pdf

Quote

A new Public Policy Polling survey finds that Governor Glenn Youngkin’s COVID-19 response has already started to see a backlash with Virginia voters rejecting many of his policies. He is already out of touch with Virginia voters on COVID-19 response less than two weeks into his administration. When it comes to Youngkin’s job performance specifically on the issue of the coronavirus, the Governor’s approval is already underwater (44-47), while voters disagree with his opposition to measures to slow the virus’ spread:
● By a 15-point margin (55-40), voters disagree with Youngkin’s executive order to remove the mask requirement in public schools.
● By an 8-point margin (52-44), voters disagree with Youngkin’s day one executive order removing the vaccine requirement for state employees, like those at public colleges and universities.
● By a 25-point margin (60-35), voters support the use of mask mandates, including 60-points (80-20) with Latino voters, 68-points (84-16) with African American voters and 27-points (60-33) with voters over 65.
● By a 16-point margin (55-39), voters support the use of vaccine mandates, including 47-points (71-24) with Latino voters, 41-points (65-24) with African American voters and 26-points (60-34) with voters over 65.
Virginians are also supportive of school boards across the state, agreeing that local school boards that oppose Youngkin’s order removing mask mandates in schools and have filed lawsuits are right. Voters support the school boards by a 15-point margin (55-40).
By an even larger 25-point margin (56-31), Virginia voters say they think local school districts should set mask requirements themselves, rather than have the mask requirements set by Youngkin.
Public Policy Polling surveyed 681 Virginia voters from January 25-26, 2022 on behalf of the Coronavirus War Room, a project of Protect Our Care. The margin of error is +/- 3.8%. 60% of interviews for the survey were conducted by text message and 40% by telephone.

 

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, ewsieg said:

If true, good for the world.  Imagine the leadership the US could have exuded if we made moves to do this with vaccines we know are effective.

Instead, half of our so called leaders are trying to convince the world that they are not effective.  

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tigerbomb13]

 

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

That didn't take long

https://coronaviruswarroom.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/VAPOC-CVWRMemoResultsJan22.pdf

 

Do they have recall options in VA?

[buddha]

17 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

That didn't take long

https://coronaviruswarroom.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/VAPOC-CVWRMemoResultsJan22.pdf

 

do you approve of governor youngkin:

approve 44

disapprove 42

 

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

do you approve of governor youngkin:

approve 44

disapprove 42

 

The COVID numbers got conflated with overall JA, which isn't as bad for sure.

For reference, I remember seeing Northam was something like +30 after inauguration, so these aren't exactly great numbers. Although PPP isn't exactly the greatest pollster either, so idk.

[CMRivdogs]

I think the range is fairly close to the election outcome. The blowback from school administrators is the big key. 

One note, unlike places like Michigan (and to a certain extent Illinois) school districts for the most part follow city or county lines. One district per localities. Cities are mostly independent from the counties. Even the deep red localities have pushed back on his "orders".

The Attorney General is much worse. His recent wave of firing lawyers coincides with his mandates to state colleges, giving them little leverage to challenge in court.

Also to MT's question last night, there is a recall, it has to go thru the courts and not the ballot box (I don't oppose that, not a big fan of recalls.) They would need a legal reason besides incompetence to remove him 

Governors are also term limited to one term. They can run again after sitting out a term. it's been that way since King George.