Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[Hongbit]

42 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

If his plan was simply natural herd immunity, and his voice carries as much weight as you claim, why does Florida have a better vaccination rate than Michigan?

And correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding is the better the vaccination rate of a population, the better that population will be in regards to Covid.   So based on that alone, how is Michigan better off than Florida at this exact moment in time?

My first thought is that Florida has a much higher population of people over the age of 65 than Michigan.  This demographic are in a higher risk category of dying and thus more likely to want the shot without being fazed by conservative political dog whistles.  

[pfife]

WOAH MOVING GOALPOSTS IS A UNION JOB DON'T BE A SCAB

[gehringer_2]

58 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

why does Florida have a better vaccination rate than Michigan?

58 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

why does Florida have a better vaccination rate than Michigan?

this is actually an interesting question. Michigan needs close to 1 million vaccinations to close the gap from a 60 to a 70% vaccination level. So who is missing?

The one obvious answer the band across the mid state from Sanilac to Oceola where vaccination rates are still mostly in the 40's. This is deep red farm and conservative evangelical country. I don't know how you reach those people but they certainly are not taking advice from anyone they regard as a liberal democrat so they sure aren't listening to Whitmer!

But that is only half the story, the other big gap is in the City of Detroit and you have a couple of things going on there I think. The first is the general level of distrust in the Black community which has been higher than in other populations. That is a given, but FLA also has a large minority population. There is another thing at work which may be just a significant and tells a slightly different story, which is that it appears  immunity in Detroit is actually already comparable to areas with higher vaccination rates because of how hard the city was hit initially. In this recent surge case rates in Detroit stayed low (comparable to Washtenaw county where the vac rate is 70%)  despite the low vaccination rates. Another way to approach this is that if you look at the fatality rate Detroit had suffered and take it back into the overall national calculation of incidence rate, you get that the case rates in Detroit were easily 3 times higher than were ever actually reported. Long story short, I would guess there are tens of thousands of Detroiters are not bothering with vaccination because they know they've already had Covid. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

 

[smr-nj]

36 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

The FDNY has a larger # of unvaccinated , (not terribly high#), but some that population called in sick today, and are looking to claim religious exemptions.

Just take the damn shot

[casimir]

As I look over some of the candidates that I need to decide among for tomorrow’s election, I recall that many experts predicted that COVID was supposed to be over with after last year’s election.

[ewsieg]

2 hours ago, pfife said:

I'm not sure why it's even a point to compare with Whitmer.    I mean, short of having a complete complex with trashing her, I don't even get the point.   Is DeSantis's goal to just be comparable to Whitmer?  Is your goal for a politician to be comparable to Whitmer?   Not only comparable to Whitmer, but comparable to Whitmer only using comparisons where all context are removed from the comparison thus rendering it not reflective of reality? 

You can't look at DeSantis's actions on their own and think wow he kinda screwed the pooch?

I think you can look at every leader, both domestic and foreign, and find some things they screwed up with.  I compare to Whitmer on this board as she's viewed as being infallible and conversely, maybe Abbot is the only other Governor that could possibly be more wrong than DeSantis...again, in the view of the majority of this board.

So with Whitmer doing all the right things, and DeSantis doing all the wrong things, it just strikes me that the numbers, per capita, are pretty close.  

[smr-nj]

30 minutes ago, casimir said:

As I look over some of the candidates that I need to decide among for tomorrow’s election, I recall that many experts predicted that COVID was supposed to be over with after last year’s election.

I would guess that the supposition was that since there WAS the vaccine developed, people would…, you know…. take the damn thing.  Instead, whole pockets of this country decided that taking/not taking the shot was a test of your love for ‘Merica. 

Who the f would have predicted that?? Stupidity reigns supreme.

[pfife]

13 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I think you can look at every leader, both domestic and foreign, and find some things they screwed up with.  I compare to Whitmer on this board as she's viewed as being infallible and conversely, maybe Abbot is the only other Governor that could possibly be more wrong than DeSantis...again, in the view of the majority of this board.

So with Whitmer doing all the right things, and DeSantis doing all the wrong things, it just strikes me that the numbers, per capita, are pretty close.  

lol infallible

that the numbers are close indicates desantis sucks not that he's good, his numbers would have been much better with obvious choices.

Edited November 2, 2021 by pfife

[oblong]

5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is actually an interesting question. Michigan needs close to 1 million vaccinations to close the gap from a 60 to a 70% vaccination level. So who is missing?

The one obvious answer the band across the mid state from Sanilac to Oceola where vaccination rates are still mostly in the 40's. This is deep red farm and conservative evangelical country. I don't know how you reach those people but they certainly are not taking advice from anyone they regard as a liberal democrat so they sure aren't listening to Whitmer!

But that is only half the story, the other big gap is in the City of Detroit and you have a couple of things going on there I think. The first is the general level of distrust in the Black community which has been higher than in other populations. That is a given, but FLA also has a large minority population. There is another thing at work which may be just a significant and tells a slightly different story, which is that it appears  immunity in Detroit is actually already comparable to areas with higher vaccination rates because of how hard the city was hit initially. In this recent surge case rates in Detroit stayed low (comparable to Washtenaw county where the vac rate is 70%)  despite the low vaccination rates. Another way to approach this is that if you look at the fatality rate Detroit had suffered and take it back into the overall national calculation of incidence rate, you get that the case rates in Detroit were easily 3 times higher than were ever actually reported. Long story short, I would guess there are tens of thousands of Detroiters are not bothering with vaccination because they know they've already had Covid. 

Spot on. Bridge had a neighborhood vax rate map and in the metro Detroit area you could clearly see the border with GP to the east.  The southwest wasn’t so clear because of the industrial complexes (refinery/steel/Ford). You could also clearly spot Pontiac, Southfield, and Inkster. 

[Jim Cowan]

I am curious about something.  It seems like it has been established above that current performance in Florida and Michigan is equally appalling, with average daily deaths in each case being literally 10 times higher than they should be.  90% of the people who die have volunteered to do so.

My question is, is there a state whose performance would be judged as "good" and if so what is its population, average daily cases and average daily deaths?

[gehringer_2]

7 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

I am curious about something.  It seems like it has been established above that current performance in Florida and Michigan is equally appalling, with average daily deaths in each case being literally 10 times higher than they should be.  90% of the people who die have volunteered to do so.

My question is, is there a state whose performance would be judged as "good" and if so what is its population, average daily cases and average daily deaths?

For your comparison, Maine, Vermont and Hawaii have death rates comparable or better than Canada. The State with population over 5 million with the lowest death rate is Washington, at 1145/M. The state over 10 million population with the lowest death rate is NCar, at 1729.  So basically every large state in the US has issues either on the urban poverty side or the conservative vaccine refusal side, or both.

[Jim Cowan]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

For your comparison, Maine, Vermont and Hawaii have death rates comparable or better than Canada. The State with population over 5 million with the lowest death rate is Washington, at 1145/M. The state over 10 million population with the lowest death rate is NCar, at 1729.  So basically every large state in the US has issues either on the urban poverty side or the conservative vaccine refusal side, or both.

Very interesting, thanks.  Urban poverty, and vaccine refusal as a political statenent, are key factors for sure and I think you could add a cavalier attitude towards masking that is not necessarily only found among conservatives.

[Motown Bombers]

California, which is about the same size as Canada, averaged 3 times as many deaths as Canada and California is one of the better ones in the US. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Motown Bombers

[Archie]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Very interesting, thanks.  Urban poverty, and vaccine refusal as a political statenent, are key factors for sure and I think you could add a cavalier attitude towards masking that is not necessarily only found among conservatives.

Its unfortunate that the vaccine and the virus have become political.  If anything these politicians should have been in agreement on covid .  They all refused, one side says one thing and the other goes the opposite because they will never admit the other is right.

It also might have helped early on in the vaccine if they would have said you didn't need a mask if vaccinated.  I know people who wouldn't get the vaccine because of that.  That's not entirely the governments fault because some employers are the same way.  Where I work they want employees vaccinated but masks are mandatory with no end in site.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Archie said:

It also might have helped early on in the vaccine if they would have said you didn't need a mask if vaccinated. 

that was not going to be workable unless the vaccinated agreed to have their foreheads branded. In America dishonesty is just too high to give people the option of working on the honor system.

[Jim Cowan]

53 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that was not going to be workable unless the vaccinated agreed to have their foreheads branded. In America dishonesty is just too high to give people the option of working on the honor system.

And besides, yes you absolutely do need a mask even if you are vaccinated, as long as daily cases remain so astronomically high.  There is no question about it.  I don't understand people who object to wearing one.

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

And besides, yes you absolutely do need a mask even if you are vaccinated, as long as daily cases remain so astronomically high.  There is no question about it.  I don't understand people who object to wearing one.

I absolutely could not make it through the day with a mask that hung from my ears - so I wear one that ties behind my head. Problem solved.....

[Motor City Sonics]

 

My mom lives in Dearborn Heights.   Her next door neighbor is an 86-year old widow.  She needs some help.  A couple months ago she didn't answer her phone or the door, so my mom went over to check on her (even though the lady's daughter lives 5 miles away).  She had fallen in the bathtub backwards and was not strong enough to pull herself out.  My mom, 80, had to call paramedics because she's not strong enough to pull her out.    Neighbor's daughter hired a caretaker, an unlicensed caretaker.  This woman was taking care of neighbor for several weeks until she disclosed that she is not vaccinated.   Guess what?   She's got COVID now and has been getting increasingly sick for over a week.  During this week she had gone to neighbor's house nearly every day.     Neighbor called my mom and sounds like she is sick.  She's worried and she may need a ride to the doctor.  I told my mom that she can't do it.   Just don't.  There are services that will take elderly people to hospitals/doctors, and the woman's daughter lives 5 miles away.       My mom can always find a service to drive her.  Hopefully its a November cold.  

The neighbor has been vaccinated but she's 86 and has diabetes.  My mom has R.A.    But if the neighbor dies, I think the caretaker should be brought up on charges (if she lives, she's in her 50s).   What a selfish asshole.   And the daughter, how do you hire someone to look after your mom and not ask?       

Unbelievable.  

[Tigerbomb13]

That’s absolutely horrific on both the daughter and caretaker’s end. Ugh. Your mom definitely can’t risk that herself.  

[Jim Cowan]

I would be curious about whether the caregiver was wearing a mask in the neighbour's house.  Probably not?

[Motor City Sonics]

4 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I would be curious about whether the caregiver was wearing a mask in the neighbour's house.  Probably not?

I don't know, but if she is unlicensed and unvaxxed,  I have my doubts.    

[oblong]

MI's numbers are back at a new high for this wave.... things looked promising 10 days ago but they started back up again.  Across the board in most counties so we can't blame the outstaters so much... although their rates are in the 40s and 50s and metro area is better, except Macomb of course.

 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

MI's numbers are back at a new high for this wave.... things looked promising 10 days ago but they started back up again.  Across the board in most counties so we can't blame the outstaters so much... although their rates are in the 40s and 50s and metro area is better, except Macomb of course.

 

So strange sharing a border to the south our numbers have been moving down steadily and have zero restrictions. I think there is one school district in Fort Wayne that require masks, outside of hospitals thats it.

[buddha]

im in oklahoma city.  no one is wearing a mask except restaurant personnel.  

our judge is wearing a mask.  the jury is optional (most dont).  the parties dont.  the gallery has to wear one.  in the hallways outside court no one wears one.