Archie Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I have no idea how you could read that from what I said. My argument was that the media and the left wanted/hoped for a conspiracy/collusion/RICO/something that's illegal in regards to Trump and Russia. So when the report came back with stating that was not found, it fell flat. A symptom of overpromising. The initial focus of the investigation was not obstruction. Obviously as the investigation went on, it became a major focus (because Trump obstructed) which as pfife points out, it was a large focus of the report. I simply said it was not a focus. Maybe it would be better to say it was not the original focus, which I think I was pointing out above, not that you just get to get away with something if you obstruct. A cop may clock you at 10mph over the speed limit. He now has a reason to pull you over. If you refuse to show legally required documentation when he comes to the door, now he has a different issue that requires more work to deal with. It could escalate to the point that very little in the cops report mentions speeding. Still, the initial focus was speeding, despite other issues possibly dominating the report. I always thought it was strange that the dems wanted to impeach Trump for something he was accused of but there was no solid proof. On the other hand Biden is on record for doing the same thing and bragging about it but no impeachment. Edited January 21, 2022 by Archie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Read the never-issued Trump order that would have seized voting machines This would have been an absolute shit-show.... Another reason, among many others, why we are being rated as a backsliding democracy. Even if the specific report I cited doesn't reference the Antrim County situation, it's certainly feels like another box checked on the backslide down the democratic scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Read the never-issued Trump order that would have seized voting machines This would have been an absolute shit-show.... Quote (1) Effective immediately, the Secretary of Defense shall seize, collect, retain and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information, and material records required for retention under United States Code Title 42, Sections 1974-1974(e), including but not limited to those identified in footnote 1. The Secretary of Defense has discretion to determine the interdiction of national critical infrastructure supporting federal elections. Designated locations will be identified in the operation order. From the memo. Just insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Another reason, among many others, why we are being rated as a backsliding democracy. Even if the specific report I cited doesn't reference the Antrim County situation, it's certainly feels like another box checked on the backslide down the democratic scale. I mean, the memo about Antrim County was basically used as a pretext in this draft EO, which basically would have given discretion to his own Secretary of Defense to seize whatever machines they wanted. The order would have faced a ton of legal challenges and who knows if it would have been allowed to be carried out (objectively, it very well may not have considering how the SCOTUS has handled questions relating to the election aftermath), but it is so painfully obvious what was going on. And yet we'll still hear from the usual suspects doing their Leslie Nielsen impression saying "NBD, y'all are hysterical, move on" Edited January 21, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I mean, the memo about Antrim County was basically used as a pretext in this draft EO, which basically would have given discretion to his own Secretary of Defense to seize whatever machines they wanted. The order would have faced a ton of legal challenges and who knows if it would have been allowed to be carried out (objectively, it very well may not have considering how the SCOTUS has handled questions relating to the election aftermath), but it is so painfully obvious what was going on. And yet we'll still hear from the usual suspects doing their Leslie Nielsen impression saying "NBD, y'all are hysterical, move on" I agree that legal challenges would have (probably) prevented the seizure of voting machines from happening in the manner proposed. But the mere fact that it was being proposed and the reasoning behind it are really, truly terrifying. Every day he remained in power after the 2020 election concluded it felt like another day we inched or jumped closer to being like Belarus or Hungary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I agree that legal challenges would have (probably) prevented the seizure of voting machines from happening in the manner proposed. But the mere fact that it was being proposed and the reasoning behind it are really, truly terrifying. Every day he remained in power after the 2020 election concluded it felt like another day we inched or jumped closer to being like Belarus or Hungary. I tend to be on the more "glass half full" side of these debates, but don't get me wrong, I am definitely concerned about our trajectory after what happened in this last election. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: I tend to be on the more "glass half full" side of these debates, but don't get me wrong, I am definitely concerned about our trajectory after what happened in this last election. I think the checks and balances of our constitution saved us in 2020. I am very concerned with how many people seem totally OK with what happened though. Many even think it was a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think the checks and balances of our constitution saved us in 2020. I am very concerned with how many people seem totally OK with what happened though. Many even think it was a good thing. We were saved by less than 25 people. I recall these discussions at the time and being very worried that some no name election official appointed to some county or state board that nobody paid attention to could disrupt something we think is just a formality. Yes Pence did the right thing at the time.... but what would have played out if he didn't? What if he stood up there and rejected the ballots? Even if he didn't have the technical authority. What would have been the process to carry on with the vote? We can sit here and say "They can't do that" but like so many things with Trump he will still do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Back to my traffic stop example... the cop pulled the driver over for speeding and the driver pulled a gun on the cop, but that is okay because he was pulled over for speeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Archie said: I always thought it was strange that the dems wanted to impeach Trump for something he was accused of but there was no solid proof. On the other hand Biden is on record for doing the same thing and bragging about it but no impeachment. no solid proof except for Trump administration literally releasing a memo admitting what they did but go off chief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Weird how these trumper arguments all require the reader not remembering what actually happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, pfife said: Weird how these trumper arguments all require the reader not remembering what actually happened. Archie Bunker has only one viewpoint: "My side does nothing wrong (even if they blatantly and criminally actually do so) and your side is scum, no matter what." And he'll use a "Paint it Black" paintbrush (Rolling Stones reference so he won't get it) to paint over roses, justice, the truth, everything... with his black paintbrush of hatred. He needs a mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) Does the memo that Politco obtained today occur before or after Bill Barr announced his resignation from the Justice Department? I am guessing Barr had no part in this and resigned over it in protest, which should trouble everyone that even Barr thought it was a step too far. I think Barr should be subpoenaed to testify before the Jan 6th Committee over this. Edited January 21, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, pfife said: no solid proof except for Trump administration literally releasing a memo admitting what they did but go off chief exactly. Add in there is no legitimate comparison to Biden/Ukraine. I know we sparred over Biden/Ukraine but even we both agreed nothing illegal happened there. Biden was carrying out the orders of his POTUS (who was also working with a coalition of multiple nations). Edited January 21, 2022 by ewsieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Does the memo that Politco obtained today occur before or after Bill Barr announced his resignation from the Justice Department? I am guessing Barr had no part in this and resigned over it in protest, which should trouble everyone that even Barr thought it was a step too far. I think Barr should be subpoenaed to testify before the Jan 6th Committee over this. His departure was announced on December 14, effective December 23. The announcement lines up with the dating of the EO (although correlation =/= causation) Edited January 21, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, mtutiger said: His departure was announced on December 14, effective December 23. The announcement lines up with the dating of the EO (although correlation =/= causation) I would presume Barr knew about this memo being drafted then. I would at least want the committee to look into what Barr knew and when prior to and up to the day he resigned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 11 hours ago, oblong said: I seriously don't think you understand what the word obstruction means. Can you expand on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 That's funny. Jimmy Kimmel put up a photo of him recently, with a creepy little smile, and said "shown here watching a 5-year-old getting into a stranger's van." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Paging Worlds Smallest Viola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.