Tiger337 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 hour ago, pfife said: Good stuff, but I think the disconnect is you're asking him questions under the assumption he's posting in good faith. He's not. He posts crap like that but says he's not a Trump supporter. The thing is all the MAGAs talk that way. It really is a cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: The thing is all the MAGAs talk that way. It really is a cult. They hate it when you challenge them with. facts. They tend to either reply with insults or turn into Jeff Lebowski "that's your opinion man" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 29 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: I get that. I used to somewhat be that way in my old days around here, so I certainly understand that style of posting he uses. One of my favorites from that time period was a thread I started bashing on Amtrak. I remember starting a whole thread about the failures of the Amtrak system simply so I could use that as broader conjecture to link the failings of an underfunded transit system to the broader system of government, trying to point out that because Amtrak had shortcomings that must mean all government programs are destined to fail or have done so already. I wasn't arguing facts or researched information and I wasn't living in the complex realities of the world we live in. Nor was I looking into the underpinnings of what Amtrak failed to live up to expectations. I dont remember it, but I'm sure my hands were all over that argument... Amtrak's success and failures are incredibly hard to discuss without knowing how the system operates or the fact that it owns so little of the track that it operates on. But it's a good example of the difference between politics and policy... whether it's this committee or abortion or healthcare or inflation, Archie's here for political trolling. He's not here to discuss policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, pfife said: step back a tad, that's the kind of conservatives I miss around here, and it's related to that Volts tweet I posted. You guys (Oblong, you, OMF, Shabba, etc) would make arguments. Now it's just like Volts said, it's just flood the zone malarkey. That said Oblong was super trolly back in the day unlike me MickeyB leaving the last board was the most instructive departure. Deep down, I really don't know that he believed all the Trumpism BS, but he had no choice but to follow the party. Edited June 10, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said: I'm going to paraphrase Jonathan V Last's comments in today's Bullwerk since his comments are behind their paywall. These hearing are on the Republican Party. They are what the Republicans chose because they refused to go along with a proposal to for an investigation similar to what the country had after 9/11 Imagine if the Republicans had followed through on the outrage that immediately followed 1/6. That that the Republican leadership had called for Trump's resignation. Or if he wouldn't resign voted for his impeachment and removal. If that had happened these hearings would not pose any danger to Republican leadership. The political danger would only adhere to Trump and his minions. Instead the Republicans chose to back Trump's coup attempt and instead oppose the consequences of their collective actions. They have spent the last 18 months making excuses or covering up his actions. The Republican Party owns these hearings. They are the ones that made it political because of their actions. As an aside, I'm old enough to remember when Republicans had enough balls to actually do the right thing. And take responsibilityo for the actions of a President whose supporters committed illegal acts. The thing that isn't remembered much about the Independent Commission deal that was reached (before McCarthy reneged) is that it was set to expire on 12/31/2021. When you add in how McCarthy pulled all his folks off the current Select Committee, you start to understand how bad at politics the guy is. One thinks that the set up they have now, assuming the format is a lot like yesterday, without grandstanding, may be the strongest possible format... It will be clear, it will be concise, and it will be free from bad faith obfuscation... all of these things alone will give it more credibility than the average Congressional hearing. Edited June 10, 2022 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, mtutiger said: MickeyB leaving the last board was the most instructive departure. Deep down, I really don't know that he believed all the Trumpism BS, but he had no choice but to follow the party. He could have become an independent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, pfife said: step back a tad, that's the kind of conservatives I miss around here, and it's related to that Volts tweet I posted. You guys (Oblong, you, OMF, Shabba, etc) would make arguments. Now it's just like Volts said, it's just flood the zone malarkey. That said Oblong was super trolly back in the day unlike me that is exactly right. Traditionally, when some level of good faith is present, some kind of logical argument is generally presented on both sides and the debate ensues about what you believed about the premises, not that the argument itself was groundless or not even logical. Often enough neither side's premises are verifiable and all you get is a good talk. For instance Tater might have argued based on something Friedman said about a market and I might have argued - sure but that part of the economy is not an efficient market in the first place. That kind of discussion can still actually be constructive, driving each side to examine the soundness of the premises and their logic. But Tribal and cultural based politics is all about emotion. Truth, logic, premise all fall to the wayside because the brain is demanding to believe what makes it feel good. It's not about rationality, it's about dopamine. Now too be fully honest, most of us take positions based on their emotional/subliminal appeal, especially initially. But if you are willing to be honest and open yourself to argument, then at least some times you come to see that your initial position was a reaction born of the self-comfort mechanism and you are willing to confront yourself with the need to admit that the facts don't support what you would otherwise prefer to believe. Edited June 10, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: If Trump does get arrested and prosecuted, there will be rioting. People were already showing up at the courthouse for Ryan Kelley in support after his arrest. I don’t think that possibility is lost on Justice, or anyone else surrounding them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: Serious question, Here’s your first mistake when replying to Bunker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: The thing is all the MAGAs talk that way. It really is a cult. One of my hypotheses—assuming he isn’t a Kremlin agent after all—is that Bunker has a customer-facing job where he has to be nice to people all day long, which pisses him off but he has to hold it in, and then he comes here and lets all his anger out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: The thing that isn't remembered much about the Independent Commission deal that was reached (before McCarthy reneged) is that it was set to expire on 12/31/2021. When you add in how McCarthy pulled all his folks off the current Select Committee, you start to understand how bad at politics the guy is. One thinks that the set up they have now, assuming the format is a lot like yesterday, without grandstanding, may be the strongest possible format... It will be clear, it will be concise, and it will be free from bad faith obfuscation... all of these things alone will give it more credibility than the average Congressional hearing. He's running a counter-investigation apparently, and they're going to include investingating Cocaine Mitch b/c of the police staffing/security of the capitol. I'll get the popcorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Failed HC Jack Del Rio fined 100,000 for his comments about Jan 6th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, pfife said: He's running a counter-investigation apparently... He is? Im not following politics as closely these days, but if I didn't realize that, that's probably another L you can drop on his doorstep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: He is? Im not following politics as closely these days, but if I didn't realize that, that's probably another L you can drop on his doorstep If the Hill is to be believed.... https://thehill.com/news/house/3517650-mccarthy-wants-to-tap-mcconnell-about-jan-6-security-failures/ Quote House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) on Thursday said that GOP members conducting a counter-investigation into the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack will seek information on the Capitol’s security posture that day from one of their own — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) The inquiry comes in addition to information Republicans are already seeking from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif). Pelosi and McConnell, who was Senate majority leader on the day of the riot, each had authority over the House and Senate sergeants at arms, respectively — two members of the three-person Capitol Police Board, the governing authority over the police force that can approve National Guard assistance. House Republicans have so far largely blamed Pelosi for the security failures of that day but have yet to tap into any role McConnell had. That changed Thursday when McCarthy was asked directly whether Republicans will ask similar questions of McConnell that they have of Pelosi. “Yes,” McCarthy responded. “We’d like to get to the bottom of why this Capitol was so ill-prepared. There’s reports that — was offered National Guard as early as Jan. 2. We do not know why they weren’t here,” McCarthy said. “We’d like to know the bottom of why they weren’t here.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 I could see that whole counter-investigation as being a cover for some real greaseball shit to drive McConnell out of the frontrunner spot for Senate leader when they win the majority this November so they can replace him with a fascist stooge like Mike Lee. Because they obviously are not so obtuse that they don’t know they won’t win the investigation itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Tucker and his fellow Trumpers average about 3 mil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Tucker and his fellow Trumpers average about 3 mil... Beat my expectations, tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 1 hour ago, pfife said: If the Hill is to be believed.... https://thehill.com/news/house/3517650-mccarthy-wants-to-tap-mcconnell-about-jan-6-security-failures/ I hate to give him advice, but he needs to do a little more to promote them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Archie said: This sham of a committee is... Spoken like a TRUE ENEMY of DEMOCRACY. Go back to Russia you traitorous fascist beeotch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, chasfh said: I admire his enthusiasm, but isn't he overstating things a wee bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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