Cleanup in Aisle Lunatic (h/t romad1)

[oblong]

It’s all about the brand. 

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

There's something seriously broken upstairs with Trump. Just not a good human being.

That's the answer  

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I don't know how much of why he fought the results were about finances more than they are just pathological.

The guy hates losing.... if you would ask him point blank, he's never "lost" a thing in his life. So it's not at all surprising (especially with the benefit of hindsight) that he would go to great lengths, including putting public officials and normal people in harms way, to execute whatever plan he felt necessary to claim victory.

I won't speculate on specifics, people do that a lot and it bothers me, but there's something seriously broken upstairs with Trump. Just not a good human being.

Trump’s brand is predicated entirely on winning. 

[CMRivdogs]

5 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Can you imagine if Al Gore had a bunch of activists storm the Supreme Court or Kathrine Harris' SOS office in Florida during the 2000 election? Can you imagine what the Republican reaction would have been?

She. was a Republican. I'm not sure it works that way, especially if a Democrat asks.

[pfife]

so stop hurting their fee fees if you want lower prices.

 

[mtutiger]

Come on.... it's clearly Door #1.

[oblong]

2 hours ago, pfife said:

so stop hurting their fee fees if you want lower prices.

 

So Chevron admits they could lower prices?

Hmmm....

 

[pfife]

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

So Chevron admits they could lower prices?

Hmmm....

yeah man.  that's what I read.   

[oblong]

12 minutes ago, pfife said:

yeah man.  that's what I read.   

I was told by the GQPKKK that Biden isn't doing it.

[oblong]

 

[Tiger337]

Saving money while surviving inflation also requires people to change their approach.   

[ewsieg]

2 hours ago, pfife said:

so stop hurting their fee fees if you want lower prices.

 

To be fair to Chevron, at least they provided a plan to deal with this.  What has Biden done?  And please don't embarrass yourself by mentioning the release of a drop in the bucket's worth of oil reserves.

I'm not saying the right answer is to follow Chevron's plan, but I haven't seen anything from this administration to deal with this.  Biden has been slow to react to this, just as he has been on most issues.

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, pfife said:

yeah man.  that's what I read.   

Like most oil patch people, Wirth is FOS. The oil companies don't care how people talk about them. The problem is that while people are bitching and moaning about prices, they haven't cut back their driving - consumption is still very high. If people would cut back, prices would fall because only then will refiners have to compete to sell the last barrel they can refine. Right now they face no price pressure because they can all sell all the gasoline they can produce. Now granted, refinery margins are only about 10-20% of the price the gasoline, the rest is the price of the crude, but 10% would still be $0.50/gal.

It's actually hard to believe given the emphasis on fuel economy but US gasoline consumption is still up about 6% from 7-8 yrs ago.

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

To be fair to Chevron, at least they provided a plan to deal with this.  What has Biden done?  And please don't embarrass yourself by mentioning the release of a drop in the bucket's worth of oil reserves.

I'm not saying the right answer is to follow Chevron's plan, but I haven't seen anything from this administration to deal with this.  Biden has been slow to react to this, just as he has been on most issues.

There is a lot of nonsense in the MSM about refining. You see a lot of articles about how we are doomed because so many refineries have closed, but the what has happened in the business is that many small refineries have closed while the big refineries have gotten incrementally bigger, so total national refining capacity actually continues to increase. What is true is that no-one is going to invest to build a new refinery with electric cars expected to take up to 10% of the market soon.

Refining is a tricky business, you make a lot money when product supply is tight, but you can lose your shirt in a hurry whenever demand drops because it's very expensive to operate units at part capacity and they are very hard to just shut down and start-up. When demand falls, each refinery is instantly willing to undercut every other refiner on price to keep his refineries running efficiently at capacity. So that adds to the volatility of gas prices, which of course are already very volatile because of the way crude prices vary all over the place.

Only one big refinery has closed in the US and that was Philly and it should have been burned down 30 yrs ago. Sun had driven the place absolutely into the ground. The place was a pit. Good riddance. They are just lucky no-one was killed in the last big failure that finally led to the total shutdown.

Edited June 22, 2022 by gehringer_2

[ewsieg]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

There is a lot of nonsense in the MSM about refining. You see a lot of articles about how we are doomed because so many refineries have closed, but the what has happened in the business is that many small refineries have closed while the big refineries have gotten bigger, so total national refining capacity actually continues to increase. What is true is that no-one is going to invest to build a new refinery with electric cars expected to take up to 10% of the market soon.

Refining is a tricky business, you make a lot money when product supply is tight, but you can lose your shirt in a hurry whenever demand drops because it's very expensive to operate units at part capacity and they are very hard to just shut down and start-up. When demand falls, each refinery is instantly willing to undercut every other refiner on price to keep his refineries running efficiently at capacity. So that adds to the volatility of gas prices, which of course are already very volatile because of the way crude prices vary all over the place.

I don't disagree with you, but your response is what i'd expect a pre-Trump GOP member say if a GOP president was in charge.  Basically a 'throw my hands up' combined with a 'the free market will fix itself' as they tried to push blame away from their POTUS.  

In the past, the Dem party has always been more so inclined to use laws/regulations to push industries into a direction they felt was good for the country.  When events resulted in a major issue, you've seen both parties do it.  Instead all i'm hearing is 'well, this just underlines the importance of moving to electric cars and renewables.'

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, ewsieg said:

I don't disagree with you, but your response is what i'd expect a pre-Trump GOP member say if a GOP president was in charge.  Basically a 'throw my hands up' combined with a 'the free market will fix itself' as they tried to push blame away from their POTUS.  

In the past, the Dem party has always been more so inclined to use laws/regulations to push industries into a direction they felt was good for the country.  When events resulted in a major issue, you've seen both parties do it.  Instead all i'm hearing is 'well, this just underlines the importance of moving to electric cars and renewables.'

The Democrats in the house passed an an anti-gouging bill and every single Republican voted against it. 

[ewsieg]

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Like most oil patch people, Wirth is FOS. The oil companies don't care how people talk about them. The problem is that while people are bitching and moaning about prices, they haven't cut back their driving - consumption is still very high. If people would cut back, prices would fall because only then will refiners have to compete to sell the last barrel they can refine. Right now they face no price pressure because they can all sell all the gasoline they can produce. Now granted, refinery margins are only about 10-20% of the price the gasoline, the rest is the price of the crude, but 10% would still be $0.50/gal.

It's actually hard to believe given the emphasis on fuel economy but US gasoline consumption is still up about 6% from 7-8 yrs ago.

I did see a meme that stated if we all just stayed home for two weeks, we could flatten the gas curve.

[Motown Bombers]

Before we start giving him too much credit. 

 

[ewsieg]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Democrats in the house passed an an anti-gouging bill and every single Republican voted against it. 

Did they need Republican votes to pass it?

Is there evidence of price gouging actually going on?  Seems to me a lot of people are complaining about election laws, without any proof of election issues and dems are pretty keen on fighting against those.

Aren't there already price gouging laws at state/local level?

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I don't disagree with you, but your response is what i'd expect a pre-Trump GOP member say if a GOP president was in charge.  Basically a 'throw my hands up' combined with a 'the free market will fix itself' as they tried to push blame away from their POTUS.  

In the past, the Dem party has always been more so inclined to use laws/regulations to push industries into a direction they felt was good for the country.  When events resulted in a major issue, you've seen both parties do it.  Instead all i'm hearing is 'well, this just underlines the importance of moving to electric cars and renewables.'

not a pre-Trump GOP member, an ex refinery services guy......  

But to your point, yes the Dems are conflicted on energy issues because there has always been a segment of the Green lobby that won't understand that the answer to problems is not to go backward in time, but to go forward in technology. That part of the lobby just wants everything bad to stop happening and if everyone has to sit cold in the dark that's just what we deserve for raping the planet. 

Of course the problem is that regardless of what we may 'deserve',  in any real political world that approach gets you at about 10 votes at the polls. That makes the compromises that are part of real practical progress anathema to some of the squeakiest wheels. And of course the oil companies spend a ton of money buying political influence that truly is hostile to our future.  But what else is new? 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Did they need Republican votes to pass it?

Is there evidence of price gouging actually going on?  Seems to me a lot of people are complaining about election laws, without any proof of election issues and dems are pretty keen on fighting against those.

Aren't there already price gouging laws at state/local level?

They didn't need Republican votes to pass the house. However, it won't pass the senate with Manchin so I guess it's the Democrats fault when 95% of Democrats support the bill and 0 Republicans do. 

When a barrel of oil was at the current price, a gallon of gas was roughly $3.50. It's now $5 and oil companies are making record profits so gouging is going somewhere.  

[Motown Bombers]

 

[smr-nj]

I’m somewhat shocked to have read in an article this morning (can’t find it now, but will continue looking), that Mr. Bowers opinion,….. even after that gut-wrenching testimony yesterday, …. is that if Trump were to run again in 2024, he would, in fact, vote for him over Biden. 
 

How do you even process that?

[Tigerbomb13]

8 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

I’m somewhat shocked to have read in an article this morning (can’t find it now, but will continue looking), that Mr. Bowers opinion,….. even after that gut-wrenching testimony yesterday, …. is that if Trump were to run again in 2024, he would, in fact, vote for him over Biden. 
 

How do you even process that?

The rot in the Republican Party runs deep. The fact that Bowers would STILL vote for him again after that testimony, shows he’s no hero. He’s just as much a coward as the rest of the party. Not a big surprise there. 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

The rot in the Republican Party runs deep. The fact that Bowers would STILL vote for him again after that testimony, shows he’s no hero. He’s just as much a coward as the rest of the party. Not a big surprise there. 

you notice that his fidelity to his oath was pretty much born of his religious convictions. So it still comes down to the Dems are godless heathens. I won't violate the law for you but I will still vote for you as long as you aren't 'them.'

Edited June 22, 2022 by gehringer_2