oblong Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, ewsieg said: So, am I missing something with this? Is the outrage that someone coined "Don't Say Gay" bill and therefore everyone must hate it, or is there a legitimate issue with the law? For Kindergarten through 3rd grade, schools may not have specific instruction related to sexual orientation. I'm guessing/hoping common sense provides that same refusal to have specific instruction on sexual orientation to kids up here in Michigan. The Libertarian in me wonders why even waste your time with this law as it's for posturing sake anyway, but i'm not sure I understand the outrage, unless that's just the reverse posturing from the other side. What if they are reading a book and it references a parenting combo of husband/wife? That's ok? But what if it referenced a combo of husband/husband or wife/wife? Is that not ok? All three scenarios represent the reality that kids live in today. Or what if they were watching a movie or program that had a gay couple but it wasn't about them being gay, they were just representing life as we know it, like they do in commercials. It wasn't that long ago that "parenting" rights groups went ape shit because they showed interracial couples in commercials. The point is to not make gay people feel marginalized or "other". It's about inclusion. It's why Marvel has deaf superheroes. They aren't "pushing the deaf lifestyle" on people. There are students with two dads or two moms. Make them feel normal and not ostracized which is what the Florida thing does. The cruelty is the point. Ron DeSantis probably kicks puppies when nobody is looking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 why are governments trying to stop gayness? gay people are way way cooler than straight people per capita and it's not even close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, pfife said: why are governments trying to stop gayness? gay people are way way cooler than straight people per capita and it's not even close Life would be a lot duller without gay people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Tigerbomb13 said: it’s a government overreach that is meant to do nothing other than marginalize a group of kids that already face marginalization and a much higher rate of bullying and suicide. Yes, but they are choosing to be bullied and marginalized. Because it sure looks like fun, doesn't it? People just love to choose to be put in that position, right? Now, if we could only get rid of all those goddamend spawn-of-satan left-handed people (an actual belief, by the way, and in recent times). They're choosing to be left-handed just to cause trouble for the rest of us right handed people who love Jesus and America And those short motherfuckers, they're choosing to be short. They can lengthen if they want to, they just refuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tigerbomb13 said: it’s a government overreach that is meant to do nothing other than marginalize a group of kids that already face marginalization and a much higher rate of bullying and suicide. I agree it's an overreach, but I don't necessarily understand how it marginalizes gay people. 1 hour ago, oblong said: What if they are reading a book and it references a parenting combo of husband/wife? That's ok? But what if it referenced a combo of husband/husband or wife/wife? Is that not ok? All three scenarios represent the reality that kids live in today. Or what if they were watching a movie or program that had a gay couple but it wasn't about them being gay, they were just representing life as we know it, like they do in commercials. It wasn't that long ago that "parenting" rights groups went ape shit because they showed interracial couples in commercials. The point is to not make gay people feel marginalized or "other". It's about inclusion. It's why Marvel has deaf superheroes. They aren't "pushing the deaf lifestyle" on people. There are students with two dads or two moms. Make them feel normal and not ostracized which is what the Florida thing does. The cruelty is the point. Ron DeSantis probably kicks puppies when nobody is looking. The law doesn't force a teacher not to acknowledge it though, it simply states they can't have pre-determined instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity. This would include heterosexual orientation as well. I personally don't understand the outrage in treating kids like kids and letting them learn about some issues when they are older and better able to understand it. My daughter (12) recently informed me that she is lgbtq as she believes she's pansexual. My first thought 'where is she getting this from' followed by a feeling that I must be doing something right because at 12 years old, 1) she's not oversexualized and 2) looking for the good in everyone. (This is based on her explanation to me of what a pansexual is) I'll be honest, maybe I just don't understand this. If she told me she was gay, I would have probably accepted that as truth as I do believe most gay people know they are gay very early on. But since she said pansexual, I doubt it. Not that I will love her less if she is, but I just have a feeling the next few years may change how she see's everything. It's a confusing age for kids and she's several years past the cut off for the Florida law. I'm not saying boys should be taught to play with trucks and stressed the importance of math while girls must play with dolls and focus on becoming nurses, i'm just saying teach kids they can do anything and let them figure out who they are sexually. Edited March 9, 2022 by ewsieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Once again, Mr. Show nails it in a very humorous way. You can't erase homosexuality. You may find this offensive, but understand, that is how these folks used humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: Once again, Mr. Show nails it in a very humorous way. You can't erase homosexuality. You may find this offensive, but understand, that is how these folks used humor. I would like to believe that no one that frequents this site would find this sketch offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, ewsieg said: I would like to believe that no one that frequents this site would find this sketch offensive. Yeah, I don't think they would, but you have to put a disclaimer before everything now. Some people have absolutely no sense of humor and scour the internet looking for things to complain about. None of our regulars are like that, but some people may be checking out this site for the first time and not understanding the general bar room humor we have. I wonder if Scour is the Wordle thing today. I haven't done today's puzzle yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 What I have never understood is how gays or minorities gaining more rights (not nearly enough) takes away from anyone else's rights. No one said you had to like any specific person or type of person, but you don't need to prevent them from finding their happiness. I guess it's just simplemindedness and stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 32 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: What I have never understood is ... I guess it's just simplemindedness and stupidity. Hatred and bigotry. Pure & simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said: What I have never understood is how gays or minorities gaining more rights (not nearly enough) takes away from anyone else's rights. No one said you had to like any specific person or type of person, but you don't need to prevent them from finding their happiness. I guess it's just simplemindedness and stupidity. Peasant mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 This is a pretty good list of congresspeople who probably should face primaries from people who 1. favor decency, or are not dealing with substance abuse or being blackmailed by their Russian case officers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 41 minutes ago, romad1 said: ... being blackmailed by their Russian case officers. lol well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 21 hours ago, ewsieg said: I agree it's an overreach, but I don't necessarily understand how it marginalizes gay people. The entire effort of the state of Florida is itself marginalizing gay people. Even if it doesn’t change a thing on the ground by outlawing something that’s not even happening anyway, the Florida right wingers in charge are sending a very clear message: we don’t want anything to do with you, gay people. We don’t wanna know about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, romad1 said: This is a pretty good list of congresspeople who probably should face primaries from people who 1. favor decency, or are not dealing with substance abuse or being blackmailed by their Russian case officers. Not a single one of those names is surprising. It's the whackjob bloc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Once again you are pushing a false democrat narriative and another lie. What the bill does is prohibit classroom instuction to kids 3rd grade and lower on sexual orientation and gender identity. Why should kids that young be taught anything like that in school? This is common sense and a great move by Florida. It should be a federal requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, chasfh said: The entire effort of the state of Florida is itself marginalizing gay people. Even if it doesn’t change a thing on the ground by outlawing something that’s not even happening anyway, the Florida right wingers in charge are sending a very clear message: we don’t want anything to do with you, gay people. We don’t wanna know about you. I bet every male legislator that voted for this has some awesome lesbian porn bookmarked or on a flash drive somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Archie said: Once again you are pushing a false democrat narriative and another lie. What the bill does is prohibit classroom instuction to kids 3rd grade and lower on sexual orientation and gender identity. Why should kids that young be taught anything like that in school? This is common sense and a great move by Florida. It should be a federal requirement. Conservatives love meddling into local affairs. "Things should be local except for what we hate and that has to be federal" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades of Deivi Cruz Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just now, Archie said: Once again you are pushing a false democrat narriative and another lie. What the bill does is prohibit classroom instuction to kids 3rd grade and lower on sexual orientation and gender identity. Why should kids that young be taught anything like that in school? This is common sense and a great move by Florida. It should be a federal requirement. So this is like banning Critical Race Theory in schools, insomuch as it is prohibiting something that wasn't actually happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said: So this is like banning Critical Race Theory in schools, insomuch as it is prohibiting something that wasn't actually happening. yep. They hate the blacks and the gays. When they show you who they are... believe them. If a teacher asks a 3rd grader to bring in a photo of their parent(s) or asks them what their parents do for a living will the children of gay parents be asked to go out in the hall or stay home that day? That might be considered "instruction" or "indoctrination". Conservative snowflakes need their safe spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I have two mommies and no daddys or two daddys and no mommy. Does that make me a bad person? Sorry kid, I can't answer that. And report to the Principal's office immediately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 18 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Hatred and bigotry. Pure & simple. Fear and loathing of gay people is so deeply rooted into many cultures - esp judeo-christian. Probably the result of sexual insecurity in the males of the hierarchy over centuries driving the hidden undercurrents of cultural taboo/rule formation. I am actually surprised to see how much the US has changed toward normalizing homosexuality in the culture in my lifetime, but we clearly are not there yet. In the US today, the core issue remains that for the christian biblical literalists, the normality of homosexuality, like evolution, is one more scientific learning that they take as an attack on the cornerstone of their belief system, and one where the 'enemy' has a face, and one that has become easier to see as gays have been able to come out in the rest of society. Now that said said, I don't necessarily disagree with E that overloading young children with sexual messaging is largely inappropriate, but the joke is that rest of straight culture already does that 24/7/365 with all the sexualized advertising and media output to which they are exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Fear and loathing of gay people is so deeply rooted into many cultures - esp judeo-christian. Probably the result of sexual insecurity in the males of the hierarchy over centuries driving the hidden undercurrents of cultural taboo/rule formation. I am actually surprised to see how much the US has changed toward normalizing homosexuality in the culture in my lifetime, but we clearly are not there yet. In the US today, the core issue remains that for the christian biblical literalists, the normality of homosexuality, like evolution, is one more scientific learning that they take as an attack on the cornerstone of their belief system, and one where the 'enemy' has a face, and one that has become easier to see as gays have been able to come out in the rest of society. Now that said said, I don't necessarily disagree with E that overloading young children with sexual messaging is largely inappropriate, but the joke is that rest of straight culture already does that 24/7/365 with all the sexualized advertising and media output to which they are exposed. For the evangelicals it's another opportunity to play the persecution/victim card and give them the misguided belief that they share that with the Apostles and early Christians. "They hate us for our faith" is a cornerstone in that sect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said: So this is like banning Critical Race Theory in schools, insomuch as it is prohibiting something that wasn't actually happening. I think your probably right that it didnt happen very much. There have been a few publicized cases where a teacher was teaching or promoting it. The bill stops this happening at a very young age. I believe the parents should instilling their principles to their children not a teacher. That isn't their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 42 minutes ago, Archie said: ...where a teacher was teaching or promoting it. "Teaching or promoting it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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