Cleanup in Aisle Lunatic (h/t romad1)

[romad1]

Listening to the Mike Flynn centered pod from The Bulwark from yesterday.   They discussed how Flynn believed that COVID vaccine was put in salad dressing to distribute it to the anti-vaxxers. 

That would seem to be a complete mis-read of the vax phobic's dietary choices. 

[Motown Bombers]

Ranch is a salad dressing and I totally see that demographic consuming copious amounts of ranch. 

[1776]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Not only aren't they going to do anything, but there is a still a good chance Trump wins in 2024.  

I find it hard to believe he could win another national election. I know he has his army of minions but on a national scale I don’t think he could pull it off. I sure hope I’m right about this.

If your comment was specific to the GOP nomination itself, that would be very interesting. 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by 1776

[oblong]

regarding the secret service texts.... are they really deleted?

[romad1]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

regarding the secret service texts.... are they really deleted?

My guess based on some experience is that they may have been deleted by devices but the records of their transmission via the airwaves is still there.  We may be able to recover meta-data at a minimum that shows the gist of the messages.  

[romad1]

3 minutes ago, romad1 said:

My guess based on some experience is that they may have been deleted by devices but the records of their transmission via the airwaves is still there.  We may be able to recover meta-data at a minimum that shows the gist of the messages.  

I just did a huddle up of my colleagues and it was a mixed answer.   One guy (the Trumpie) said..."they just pulled a Hillary" but most of them felt the meta data should be somewhere.   

[Motown Bombers]

It would be too amazing if they are saved on someone's private server. 

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, pfife said:

I think the DOJ is working on it and it takes longer than folks think.   At least I hope.

Or things that folks think is a crime may not be, or there's not enough evidence to convict...  like the DOJ can't prosecute trump b/c he called a witness and the witness didn't take the call.   There's no evidence of what Trump was calling about.  We may all think it's obvious and maybe it is but that's not enough to convict. 

The case has to be beyond air tight.   If they prosecute and lose.... eesh. 

All we can hope is that they are releasing only a sliver of what they have in evidence, maybe even as a way to stoke the kind of overreaction from MAGA that will further incriminate them. Who knows.

But as far as taking time—how much time is there left? If the Republicans sweep the elections before indictments come down, is there any way for them to just prevent that, whether directly or politically?

[Tiger337]

45 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I find it hard to believe he could win another national election. I know he has his army of minions but on a national scale I don’t think he could pull it off. I sure hope I’m right about this.

If your comment was specific to the GOP nomination itself, that would be very interesting. 

 

 

If they had GOP primaries this summer, he would win easily.  If there was a Biden - Trump rematch today, I think Trump would win that too.  Even the Democrats blame him for inflation.  I think that's silly, but it's what they think.  

[Motown Bombers]

Even if the Republicans sweep the midterms, the DOJ stays the same. If Republicans sweep in 2024, they will just pardon Trump and everybody who kept quiet. They have already arrested 800 people. It took two years just to close in on Nixon's inner circle and that case was far less complicated. 

[ewsieg]

40 minutes ago, romad1 said:

I just did a huddle up of my colleagues and it was a mixed answer.   One guy (the Trumpie) said..."they just pulled a Hillary" but most of them felt the meta data should be somewhere.   

I would gather there would be meta data at both the device and network end.  I doubt you could get the full texts from the network side, unless, soon after 1/6, federal requests were put in to provide or at least safeguard the data.

If it's secret service, I would hope/assume they don't have a BYOD policy and have secure government issued phones.  With this, it's possible all communication is tracked/stored separately and even if not, at any time the government could take the phone and attempt to get the info directly off of them.

 

[pfife]

23 minutes ago, chasfh said:

All we can hope is that they are releasing only a sliver of what they have in evidence, maybe even as a way to stoke the kind of overreaction from MAGA that will further incriminate them. Who knows.

But as far as taking time—how much time is there left? If the Republicans sweep the elections before indictments come down, is there any way for them to just prevent that, whether directly or politically?

I agree w/ the notion that the Jan 6 congressional committee is in real jeopardy.    The DOJ perhaps not but informally they could be pressured.  I think the republicans could be pretty creative in stopping the DOJ from Congress if they wish to do so.  

[Tiger337]

We were all wondering how quickly he would disrespect his ex-wife and raise money off her death.  He didn't disappoint.  

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

42 minutes ago, pfife said:

I agree w/ the notion that the Jan 6 congressional committee is in real jeopardy.    The DOJ perhaps not but informally they could be pressured.  I think the republicans could be pretty creative in stopping the DOJ from Congress if they wish to do so.  

Nothing is going to happen to Trump.  The only hope is that enough moderate Republicans are disgusted enough by his behavior that they won't vote in 2024. 

[pfife]

55 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I would gather there would be meta data at both the device and network end.  I doubt you could get the full texts from the network side, unless, soon after 1/6, federal requests were put in to provide or at least safeguard the data.

If it's secret service, I would hope/assume they don't have a BYOD policy and have secure government issued phones.  With this, it's possible all communication is tracked/stored separately and even if not, at any time the government could take the phone and attempt to get the info directly off of them.

 

I think you're right that the data is still stored somewhere on the network side, but it seems like they'd be able to get the full texts via subpoena if necessary.  

I think this is really a bad move by the secret service, b/c all it does is obstruct and I think all of the info is still available so it basically shows bad intentions for no real gain.

[pfife]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

Nothing is going to happen to Trump.  The only hope is that enough moderate Republicans are disgusted enough by his behavior that they won't vote in 2024. 

I think that's exactly the point of this committee, to basically soil him so badly he's unpalatable to many many voters.   Whether they'll be successful is another question.  It seems like they're doing a really good job but as we move further in time away from the hearings, the GOP will be able to change the narrative, like they have since Jan 6.    We all remember how there were republicans that were outraged by Jan 6 and have since changed their tune.   

[ewsieg]

3 minutes ago, pfife said:

I think that's exactly the point of this committee, to basically soil him so badly he's unpalatable to many many voters.   Whether they'll be successful is another question.  It seems like they're doing a really good job but as we move further in time away from the hearings, the GOP will be able to change the narrative, like they have since Jan 6.    We all remember how there were republicans that were outraged by Jan 6 and have since changed their tune.   

They are doing a good job to the people that are willing to listen to them, which happens to be the same people that didn't vote for him anyway.  At this point, i'm not sure how well it's doing elsewhere.  There is evidence that GOP voters are starting to look at a party past him, maybe this is playing a part of that.  He's been able to put a spell on the entire GOP voter base though, so I don't give a crap about soiling him, he needs to be put in jail to ensure he doesn't run again.

[pfife]

There have been a number of reports that are indicating that Trump has been considering announcing that he's officially running quite early compared to prior candidates.  I think a component in announcing the run is to combat any potential DOJ action as well as action by the state of Georgia.    It does seem to me that if he's running he's instantly the presumptive GOP nominee and the wagons will begin to circle.   I also wouldn't be shocked if this influenced the DOJ b/c they have informal rules about indicting candidates. 

[romad1]

1 minute ago, pfife said:

There have been a number of reports that are indicating that Trump has been considering announcing that he's officially running quite early compared to prior candidates.  I think a component in announcing the run is to combat any potential DOJ action as well as action by the state of Georgia.    It does seem to me that if he's running he's instantly the presumptive GOP nominee and the wagons will begin to circle.   I also wouldn't be shocked if this influenced the DOJ b/c they have informal rules about indicting candidates. 

Sail on.  Get the white whale!

[pfife]

2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

They are doing a good job to the people that are willing to listen to them, which happens to be the same people that didn't vote for him anyway.  At this point, i'm not sure how well it's doing elsewhere.  There is evidence that GOP voters are starting to look at a party past him, maybe this is playing a part of that.  He's been able to put a spell on the entire GOP voter base though, so I don't give a crap about soiling him, he needs to be put in jail to ensure he doesn't run again.

I was listening to a pod yesterday and while polling is crap, they mentioned some A+ polling firm whose polling suggested modest inroads w/ Republicans and pretty good traction among independents.   But whether that a) is actually the case, and b) will maintain until Nov 2024 is a totally different question.   

[ewsieg]

1 minute ago, pfife said:

I was listening to a pod yesterday and while polling is crap, they mentioned some A+ polling firm whose polling suggested modest inroads w/ Republicans and pretty good traction among independents.   But whether that a) is actually the case, and b) will maintain until Nov 2024 is a totally different question.   

Exactly, and what you pointed out above with 'the wagon's circling' is the concern with that.

[pfife]

6 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Sail on.  Get the white whale!

Orange whale?

💀

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, pfife said:

Orange whale?

💀

Very orange

[chasfh]

56 minutes ago, pfife said:

There have been a number of reports that are indicating that Trump has been considering announcing that he's officially running quite early compared to prior candidates.  I think a component in announcing the run is to combat any potential DOJ action as well as action by the state of Georgia.    It does seem to me that if he's running he's instantly the presumptive GOP nominee and the wagons will begin to circle.   I also wouldn't be shocked if this influenced the DOJ b/c they have informal rules about indicting candidates. 

Given that fascism isn't the sort of thing that merely peters out from ennui, I guess there will be nothing to avoid the worst of outcomes and turn things around except a TBD number of people being killed and the ensuing reckoning after the worst of everything happens. That's all probably going to take years and years to live through.

I believe some uprising of some degree of seriousness is going to happen whether or not Justice indicts—either this year because of Trump World indictments, or early next year because of this election, or in two to three years because of that election—but I also believe it will go down worse if Justice does nothing, because that means the system would be openly giving up. At least if Justice indicts, there is a chance to still show the system is strong and willing to fight the fascists, which may dissuade those only marginally interested in rising up, which may make it easier to fight and put the whole thing down. That won't be easy, either, not by any stretch, and perhaps even people some of us personally know may die as a result. But at least we'd still have a chance.

Edited July 15, 2022 by chasfh

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Given that fascism isn't the sort of thing that merely peters out from ennui, I guess there will be nothing to avoid the worst of outcomes and turn things around except a TBD number of people being killed and the ensuing reckoning after the worst of everything happens. That's all probably going to take years and years to live through.

I believe some uprising of some degree of seriousness is going to happen whether or not Justice indicts—either this year because of Trump World indictment, or early next year after this election, or in two to three years after that election—but I also believe it will go down worse if Justice does nothing, because that means the system would be openly giving up. At least if Justice indicts, there is a chance to still show the system is strong and willing to fight the fascists, which may dissuade those only marginally interested in rising up, which may make it easier to fight and put the whole thing down. That won't be easy, either, not by any stretch, and perhaps people some of us know personally may die as a result. But at least we'd still have a chance.

Just now listening to Hamilton soundtrack "One Last Time" where Washington asserts that the stable transfer of power demonstrates the strength of the system.   Yeah, that seems very relevant.