Cleanup in Aisle Lunatic (h/t romad1)

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Of all the stupid MAGA things, what's most likely to destroy our country quickest is not end of democracy, bigotry and the other bad stuff we worry about.   It is anti-science/ anti-education/ lack of interest in the truth.  I don't think we can last very long as a strong country if we continue down that road.  

All six of these things are related.

Edited December 14, 2024 by chasfh

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

This just can not be stressed enough. A democracy depends on the public making decisions to the public good. If they either don't understand, mis-understand, or are allowed to be lied to without challenge about what is actually the public good, game over - everything collapses.

The populist idea of democracy has been reduced to pulling a lever every four years, or, if you’re more ambitious, every two years. That’s because “actually, we’re a republic”.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The populist idea of democracy has been reduced to pulling a lever every four years

Putin's Russia. Everybody votes but it's strictly for show. Only Vladdy gets to count the votes.

Edited December 14, 2024 by gehringer_2

[ewsieg]

13 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don't know what they are, but those aren't liberals you're talking about. I know this because I am a liberal, and rejecting science and vaccines and embracing holistic alternative medicine horsehit was never a core liberal value. Only right wingers who hate liberals think liberals are typically that.

I can prove that to you: Trump's embrace of RFK Jr proves he's no liberal.

Oh, most definitely they were and are still very progressive liberals.  "Big Pharma" was a legit concern for them, now Big Pharma is the only reason why they can go outside (with masks on of course).

If you were anti-vax pre covid, 9/10 times you were voting blue.  Times, they are a changin'.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Oh, most definitely they were and are still very progressive liberals.  "Big Pharma" was a legit concern for them, now Big Pharma is the only reason why they can go outside (with masks on of course).

If you were anti-vax pre covid, 9/10 times you were voting blue.  Times, they are a changin'.

Big Pharma gave us the opioid crisis and ridiculous prices for precriptions that people need to survive.  **** them! 

I understand the point you are trying to make but you are way over generalizing based on a small percentage of hippies you may know.    

[casimir]

14 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Of all the stupid MAGA things, what's most likely to destroy our country quickest is not end of democracy, bigotry and the other bad stuff we worry about.   It is anti-science/ anti-education/ lack of interest in the truth.  I don't think we can last very long as a strong country if we continue down that road.  

Slightly related to the anti education part, if one wants to home school, have at it.  But don’t bombard a professional and degreed educator for instruction on how to home school.  It’s quite insulting to imply someone isn’t worthy of a task that their expertise is then asked for.

[gehringer_2]

As families get smaller and live social contacts keep decreasing in US society, I think socialization in school just gets more important. I suppose in a large family (which many home schoolers are) that's less a concern, but where does a kid learn to function in any kind of group setting if he's a home schooled only child? Nothing is impossible and nature may overcome any nurture, but it can't make it easier.

[Tiger337]

27 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

As families get smaller and live social contacts keep decreasing in US society, I think socialization in school just gets more important. I suppose in a large family (which many home schoolers are) that's less a concern, but where does a kid learn to function in any kind of group setting if he's a home schooled only child? Nothing is impossible and nature may overcome any nurture, but it can't make it easier.

I think home schooling is fine for some kids if they have educated parents with time for home schooling.  It also helps if they are involved in sports or other activities.  School socialization was an unpleasant experience for me and I don't think I benefitted much from it.      

[gehringer_2]

39 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

School socialization was an unpleasant experience for me and I don't think I benefitted much from it.      

I share your characterization, but the fact that it was often unpleasant didn't mean I didn't learn a lot of things I needed to!

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I think home schooling is fine for some kids if they have educated parents with time for home schooling.  It also helps if they are involved in sports or other activities.  School socialization was an unpleasant experience for me and I don't think I benefitted much from it.      

Sure, there are some situations are amenable or better served for home schooling.  I don’t want to come across as completely anti home school, and I probably did up above.

[CMRivdogs]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I think home schooling is fine for some kids if they have educated parents with time for home schooling.  It also helps if they are involved in sports or other activities.  School socialization was an unpleasant experience for me and I don't think I benefitted much from it.      

But maybe you were exposed to different lifestyles and social status. Hopefully you were taught critical thinking (which doesn't seem to be taught any more). 

I'm not completely anti home school, but I do shake my head at some parents, or even students that refuse to even consider another opinion. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by CMRivdogs

[Tiger337]

35 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

But maybe you were exposed to different lifestyles and social status. Hopefully you were taught critical thinking (which doesn't seem to be taught any more). 

I'm not completely anti home school, but I do shake my head at some parents, or even students that refuse to even consider another opinion. 

I lived in a boring white suburban middle class town, so I wasn't exposed to much.  Just boring white middle class kids being shallow and treating each other badly.   

A far as learning how to think, I got a lot out of my education.  I got that at home too.  I was just commenting on the importance of socialization from schools.  

Edited December 14, 2024 by Tiger337

[CMRivdogs]

34 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I lived in a boring white suburban middle class town, so I wasn't exposed to much.  Just boring white middle class kids being shallow and treating each other badly.   

A far as learning how to think, I got a lot out of my education.  I got that at home too.  I was just commenting on the importance of socialization from schools.  

Yea, I guess I learned a lot about cliques

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I lived in a boring white suburban middle class town, so I wasn't exposed to much.  Just boring white middle class kids being shallow and treating each other badly.   

A far as learning how to think, I got a lot out of my education.  I got that at home too.  I was just commenting on the importance of socialization from schools.  

I would recommend that anyone who can go to school where they will meet a lot of different kind of people should do it. Monotone suburbia on one side, monotone black urban on the other, and FTM monotone rural are all bad for everyone. I had the good fortune to be a middle class kid at a high school with classmates that ran the spectrum from Palmer Woods to Highland Park. Looking back now I wouldn't have traded it for the world. At 15 yrs old that exposure actually is life changing.

[CMRivdogs]

We moved a bit. From fairly suburban Western Pennsylvania to rural Southwest Virginia. Then to a city school. Throw in the beginning of desegregation in my eighth grade year (first year of high school). The mid to late 60s were definitely an experience that shaped my outlook on things.  

[CMRivdogs]

https://bsky.app/profile/jefftiedrich.bsky.social/post/3ld7sow22v22z
 

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imagine a country so furious about drag performers that it voted for polio

December 13, 2024 at 5:15 PM

 

 

[chasfh]

21 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Oh, most definitely they were and are still very progressive liberals.  "Big Pharma" was a legit concern for them, now Big Pharma is the only reason why they can go outside (with masks on of course).

Again, not typical liberals. Garden-variety liberals don’t believe in anti-vax doctrine, and if you continue to insist they do, then you are being aggressively ignorant about the nature of American liberals, and not a little intellectually dishonest.

21 hours ago, ewsieg said:

If you were anti-vax pre covid, 9/10 times you were voting blue.  Times, they are a changin'.

As long as we’re going here, if you are a Nazi in America, 9/10 you are voting red.

[chasfh]

17 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think home schooling is fine for some kids if they have educated parents with time for home schooling.

Apropos of nothing, I saw Sabrina Carpenter being interviewed recently, she was home-schooled, and man, is she sharp.

 

Edited December 15, 2024 by chasfh

[chasfh]

17 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

As families get smaller and live social contacts keep decreasing in US society, I think socialization in school just gets more important. I suppose in a large family (which many home schoolers are) that's less a concern, but where does a kid learn to function in any kind of group setting if he's a home schooled only child? Nothing is impossible and nature may overcome any nurture, but it can't make it easier.

It’s not just the kind of socialization where kids learn to play together at recess. There is also the kind of socialization in which schools teach children the proper range of social behavior and thinking consistent with American ideals, which is a legitimate educational function that serves us all well. I concede the idea that parents have a right to raise their children within certain beliefs and lifestyles as they see fit, but there has to be limits to that if the result could actually end up being harmful to society.

Think of it this way: if a child grows up in a family in which the parents believe in providing hours each day of Nazi doctrine and paramilitary training for their kids for years on end in order to prepare for what they believe is the inevitable coming race war, is that merely a lifestyle choice they should have the right to pursue?

[romad1]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Apropos of nothing, I saw Sabrina Carpenter being interviewed recently, she was home-schooled, and man, is she sharp.

 

The wife keeps telling me everytime Sabrina Carpenter comes on the TV, that Sabrina Carpenter should do a Deborah Harry biopic.  I can see it.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I would recommend that anyone who can go to school where they will meet a lot of different kind of people should do it. Monotone suburbia on one side, monotone black urban on the other, and FTM monotone rural are all bad for everyone. I had the good fortune to be a middle class kid at a high school with classmates that ran the spectrum from Palmer Woods to Highland Park. Looking back now I wouldn't have traded it for the world. At 15 yrs old that exposure actually is life changing.

This is what busing in the 70s was intended to address.

[romad1]

Just now, chasfh said:

This is what busing in the 70s was intended to address.

Your classmate Palmer Woods was the rich kid whose dad owned the country club?  And Highland Park was the Korean kid who loved prog rock?

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

Your classmate Palmer Woods was the rich kid whose dad owned the country club?  And Highland Park was the Korean kid who loved prog rock?

Close on #1, but Asians hadn't gotten to Highland Park in the early 70's.

[romad1]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Close on #1, but Asians hadn't gotten to Highland Park in the early 70's.

Was just going off the last name.   All 80s movies had the random Japanese kid in the mix who either had super technical capabilities and was super horny for american girls.  A Korean kid would have been too precise for the limited geographic skills of the time. 

[Tiger337]

5 hours ago, chasfh said:

Think of it this way: if a child grows up in a family in which the parents believe in providing hours each day of Nazi doctrine and paramilitary training for their kids for years on end in order to prepare for what they believe is the inevitable coming race war, is that merely a lifestyle choice they should have the right to pursue?

What if you have educated parents who live in a town with a terrible school system?  Chances are they might send their kid to a private school, but what if they didn't want to spend the money and home schooled ther childen?