Cleanup in Aisle Lunatic (h/t romad1)

[pfife]

I'd argue that assumption is well founded.

[Tigeraholic1]

14 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

I would then want all of them executed.

But...

Maybe that's unreasonable.

Back to this statement. I am 100% sure this or something VERY similar was said on a dark little message board leading up to.

- The plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer

- Jan 6

and believe it or not they thought they were just “Patriots” as well.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Tigeraholic1

[mtutiger]

16 minutes ago, pfife said:

I'd argue that assumption is well founded.

Why?

You really think CA shrugs its shoulders and moves on in that theoretical case?

Edited December 12, 2021 by mtutiger

[Motown Bombers]

I would rather not get to the point of civil war and pin my hopes on California to save us. 

 

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I would rather not get to the point of civil war and pin my hopes on California to save us. 

 

I wouldn't either. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by mtutiger

[Motown Bombers]

I'm also suppose to rely on the people who will sit out voting for Biden because he's not exciting enough even thought the Republicans have their coup attempt on PowerPoint. 

[mtutiger]

I guess the thing that I'm pushing back on is the assumption that there is zero cost whatsoever to overriding majority rule.

I dont ultimately know how it would play out in reality, but however it does, it won't be at zero cost. Especially since it'd effectively be the end of the Republic.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

I guess the thing that I'm pushing back on is the assumption that there is zero cost whatsoever to overriding majority rule.

I dont ultimately know how it would play out in reality, but however it does, it won't be at zero cost. Especially since it'd effectively be the end of the Republic.

You assume the Republicans care. They don't care if Atlanta, Philadelphia, Detroit etc burns themselves down. They don't care if California, Illinois or New York leave the union. They don't care if there is chaos. They welcome it. 

[romad1]

I want to reiterate that the title of this thread is "Cleanup on Aisle Lunatic"

We can't resort to lunatic behavior to cleanup the RW lunatics.  That's how those idiots win.  

The rule of law must be the foundation of any effort to bolster democracy.   State violence is only valid and appropriate when it is back by the law and the constitution.   This is why this is a dangerous time.  i can't even guess that we'd prevail and in fact many democracies do fail because anti-democratic forces have many advantages. 

 

[pfife]

29 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Why?

You really think CA shrugs its shoulders and moves on in that theoretical case?

Because I think almost everyone has shrugged their shoulders at every point thus far while the problem continues to get worse and worse.

That this will continue is a more founded assumption than an assumption that it would change IMO.

Edited December 12, 2021 by pfife

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I would rather not get to the point of civil war and pin my hopes on California to save us. 

 

you aren't going to get constitutional reform until one or more of the large stats forces it. That is just the reality. Does anyone think there is a single sole in Wyoming who is going to say - "Oh my yes, our Senatorial representation really does need amending."?

But it's two different questions: How it happens and whether it happens. FWIW, I wouldn't rate the odds of the US democracy just collapsing into some kind of Chinese style econo-autocracy as any worse than real Constitutional reform happening. We are already seeing that half of America seems perfectly willing to hold tighter to their myths than their survival.  But if the Union is going to be saved long term, the large states will have to force it or it won't happen.

Edited December 12, 2021 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, romad1 said:

I want to reiterate that the title of this thread is "Cleanup on Aisle Lunatic"

We can't resort to lunatic behavior to cleanup the RW lunatics.  That's how those idiots win.  

The rule of law must be the foundation of any effort to bolster democracy.   State violence is only valid and appropriate when it is back by the law and the constitution.   This is why this is a dangerous time.  i can't even guess that we'd prevail and in fact many democracies do fail because anti-democratic forces have many advantages. 

 

To this end, too, so much time is spent (not just here but also with Dem social media people) on theoretical scenarios that I worry that people aren't actually focused on, you know, actually winning elections.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

you aren't going to get constitutional reform until one or more of the large stats forces it. That is just the reality. Does anyone think there is a single sole in Wyoming who is going to say - "Oh my yes, our Senatorial representation really does need amending."?

One of the easiest ways the Democrats could have helped Senatorial representation was make DC a state and they have basically sat there with their thumbs up their asses. 

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

To this end, too, so much time is spent (not just here but also with Dem social media people) on theoretical scenarios that I worry that people aren't actually focused on, you know, actually winning elections.

Virginia told me everything I needed to know. Democrats are off in a fantasyland. The toddlers need someone exciting. The fact that we are having to have a discussion about states throwing their weight around in the event that Republicans try to steal an election is not exciting enough apparently. 

[romad1]

26 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Virginia told me everything I needed to know. Democrats are off in a fantasyland. The toddlers need someone exciting. The fact that we are having to have a discussion about states throwing their weight around in the event that Republicans try to steal an election is not exciting enough apparently. 

Once you round up all the NeverTrumpers you can have your ideological purity 

[chasfh]

23 hours ago, oblong said:

It wouldn’t matter. What could Atlanta do about it?  Nothing. They can’t vote them out.  Yes it won’t be legitimate but… what does that mean?   We are evolving to majority by geography.  The cities, which will have more people, will be governed by the rural because they will outnumber cities in terms of representation in the legislatures. 
 

the goal of the GOP isn’t legitimacy or honor. It’s power. By any means necessary. So what if people in Washington are unhappy. Or a bunch of lib labs. 

History is lousy with examples of an entrenched minority ruling over a majority basically against their will. Just because it’s the 21st century doesn’t mean were beyond the possibility of that happening again. And the current minority here in America is methodically undertaking the process of entrenching themselves by using the system itself to destroy that very system. That’s the first chapter of the autocracy playbook. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by chasfh

[Motown Bombers]

 

[gehringer_2]

10 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

One of the easiest ways the Democrats could have helped Senatorial representation was make DC a state and they have basically sat there with their thumbs up their asses. 

yup. The old saw about the knife at the gun fight apply. But like every thing else, the filibuster has to go first. If the dems can't pull together the unity to do that, nothing else happens beyond spending money, which you can always get past either party. Not that that is nothing, but it has its limits.  Then again, who knows, if the GOP takes Congress in 2022 we might all be thanking Manchin for his intransigence.

Edited December 13, 2021 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

The filibuster won’t be eliminated until the Republicans are in the majority in the Senate with a rubber-stamp Republican president. I’m thinking 2025.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The filibuster won’t be eliminated until the Republicans are in the majority in the Senate with a rubber-stamp Republican president. I’m thinking 2025.

no doubt

[buddha]

16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

no doubt

they had that in 2016.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

they had that in 2016.

And they got rid of the filibuster for Supreme Court justices. This is the next logical step. 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, buddha said:

they had that in 2016.

if they regain the Congress they will be worse this time. The few GOP institutionalists left are seeing their numbers decrease almost daily - not to mention the likelihood that McConell keels over dead sometime soon - whoever takes over will be worse - a la a Cruz, Graham or Hawley

Edited December 13, 2021 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

if they regain the Senate they will be worse this time. The few GOP institutionalizes left are seeing their numbers decrease almost daily - not to mention the likelihood that McConell keels over dead sometime soon and Jim Jordan ends up the GOP Senate leader...

is jordan running for senate?  yikes.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

is jordan running for senate?  yikes.

mistyped that, I was thinking of Hawley, brain pulled up the wrong idiot.

Edited December 13, 2021 by gehringer_2