NFL Draft Night - As It Happens.

[TP_Fan]

1 minute ago, sagnam said:

I don’t understand the whole issue with trading with a division rival. The goal should be to get better.  What the other team wants or who it is is irrelevant. Obviously this assumes the attempt at fair value.

The issue is you are made to look a fool much more often when you make a bad trade. It’s in your face.  It’s remembered by the fan base.  You don’t trade with a division rival unless they absolutely make a mistake and you fleece them.  That’s what happened tonight.  The Vikings rookie GM is off to a rough start per the fan base.  Compare that to Holmes, who the Detroit fan base loves.  And that matters. 

[Motown Bombers]

Can't wait to see Williams get behind Cine for a long TD. 

[NYLion]

Ok guys, just got home from a draft party and didn't read through the comments. Crazy ass night, what does everybody think?

The Hutch pick was obviously a good one and I think I love that Holmes went bold and got the most dynamic receiver in the draft and the value of the trade was great IMO. Swapped 1sts, swapped 2nds (which was of much lower value than the 1st swap for the Vikings) and gave up a 3rd. Am I missing anything or is this a great "value" trade for Holmes and the Lions? Pretty exciting day I think and we still have a 2nd and 3rd tomorrow to fill other holes. Willis at 46 possibly?

[sagnam]

 

7 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

The issue is you are made to look a fool much more often when you make a bad trade. It’s in your face.  It’s remembered by the fan base.  You don’t trade with a division rival unless they absolutely make a mistake and you fleece them.  That’s what happened tonight.  The Vikings rookie GM is off to a rough start per the fan base.  Compare that to Holmes, who the Detroit fan base loves.  And that matters. 

I just did a quick search because I though it was the case, and the Lions and Vikings actually trade quite frequently during the draft. Or at least in the last 10-ish years.

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, NYLion said:

Ok guys, just got home from a draft party and didn't read through the comments. Crazy ass night, what does everybody think?

The Hutch pick was obviously a good one and I think I love that Holmes went bold and got the most dynamic receiver in the draft and the value of the trade was great IMO. Swapped 1sts, swapped 2nds (which was of much lower value than the 1st swap for the Vikings) and gave up a 3rd. Am I missing anything or is this a great "value" trade for Holmes and the Lions? Pretty exciting day I think and we still have a 2nd and 3rd tomorrow to fill other holes. Willis at 46 possibly?

Seattle has two picks and Atlanta has a pick before 46. I would be surprised if he is still there at 46.

Both Lions and Vikings fans think the Vikings got fleeced. 

[NYLion]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Seattle has two picks and Atlanta has a pick before 46. I would be surprised if he is still there at 46.

Both Lions and Vikings fans think the Vikings got fleeced. 

Yeah. I think Holmes did great here.

If Willis somehow drops to 46, that would be icing on the cake, assuming that Holmes is interested in taking him. I hope they go safety or linebacker. Dean is still on the board, Brisker, Petrie. Some good talent left.

Edited April 29, 2022 by NYLion

[sagnam]

Willis may be there if he’s not valued as highly by NFL personnel as he is by mock drafters. Ridder, Corral, and Howell are still there as well.  It’s a real possibility.  I think it’s very likely at this point the Lions wouldn’t take him at 46 even if he was.  I think they are serious about Goff this season.

[Motown Bombers]

I love how angry Viking fans are at this trade. Worst trade since Herschel Walker they say. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[MichiganCardinal]

52 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

FWIW, you can fill in the blank there with whoever the Lions selected. There is no way he knew the Lions were taking Williams before the trade was completed. That would be stupid.

[RedRamage]

8 hours ago, sagnam said:

I don’t understand the whole issue with trading with a division rival. The goal should be to get better.  What the other team wants or who it is is irrelevant. Obviously this assumes the attempt at fair value at a minimum.

Logically, emotionlessly, it makes sense to trade with anyone if you think it's the right trade.

But fans are rarely logical, rational thinkers (expect us of course). If you trade with a division rival the player the rival gets with the trade ends up having success you have to see that player twice a year.  Look, Lions fans still complain about passing on Aaron Donald and he's not even in the our Division.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I've been against taking a QB in anything other than the first round. I believe that with a position as important as QB you either take your guy in the first or don't do it at all. Outside of the few exceptions, Tom Brady being the obvious one, Russell Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo, most of your component starting QBs are first round choices.

Now, sometimes that strategy of taking or wanting a QB in the first has failed, depending on the guy. For the Lions, Joey Harrington was an obvious flop. For me personally, in hindsight, I'm obviously an idiot for thinking Connor Cook would be a component NFL starter. The jury is still out on Tua.

 With Malik Willis I might be willing to make an exception to this rule. If Brad Holmes and co have really done their homework on Malik, then pick him. I have enough trust, based on what Holmes has done thus far, to not get disappointed or worked up about him taking his future, franchise QB in any other round than one.

If Holmes takes anyone other than Willis, I think I'll be disappointed. I'm no QB expert and I've had my share of bad takes on who I thought would be good, great, and terrible. But I just can't help but think I'd feel extremely underwhelmed and disappointed if he took Corral, Howell, or Ridder at pick 46. I know we have Goff still and I know they could sit there and develop behind him. But after watching tape, reading through hours of opinion and analysis on these guys, and then seeing every NFL front office full of people way smarter than me pass on Corral, Howell, and Ridder, I just don't think I can get behind it being a QB not named Malik Willis.

[Hongbit]

I like the aggressiveness of the trade and I like getting Hutch and Williams.   
 

If I’m being honest I would’ve preferred to stay at 32/34 and getting Cine and Dean over Williams

[Hongbit]

They can’t take a QB at 46.   It’s got to be a defensive back 7 player.   Although I think there’s a real possibility he will trade back for a 3rd and 4th.  

Edited April 29, 2022 by Hongbit

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Motown Bombers]

6 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I like the aggressiveness of the trade and I like getting Hutch and Williams.   
 

If I’m being honest I would’ve preferred to stay at 32/34 and getting Cine and Dean over Williams

They could still get Dean. I'll take a game breaker like Williams over a safety and LB. I thought they would have had to trade a future 1st to move 20 spots. Given they only gave up a 3rd and still have a 3rd left is worth it to me. 

[Motown Bombers]

I'm kind of interested in taking Willis not as the future QB but as a Taysom Hill type player. I wonder what his receiving skills are like? 

[RedRamage]

30 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

They could still get Dean. I'll take a game breaker like Williams over a safety and LB. I thought they would have had to trade a future 1st to move 20 spots. Given they only gave up a 3rd and still have a 3rd left is worth it to me. 

Yeah, it's not Williams or Cine and Dean... it's Williams and #46 or Cine and Dean...  We'll, technically it's or Cine, Dean, and #66.

 

[Stanley70]

I think the Lions can get a decent LB and safety in free agency. Finding a game breaking WR is much more difficult. I think Williams is a fast as Hill, he we leaving SEC defensive backs in the dust. He would have been low 4.3's at least, maybe 4.2's if he ran.

 

They should just take the BPA on defense, hopefully Brisker, Dean, or Pitre.

 

[Hongbit]

There’s no way Dean is there at 46.   Zero chance

[RedRamage]

So here's the next 14 picks and the next 28 ranked players according to ESPN.  Who want to do a 14 pick mock draft?

[RedRamage]

Here's what PFF just did: 

[Longgone]

57 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I've been against taking a QB in anything other than the first round. I believe that with a position as important as QB you either take your guy in the first or don't do it at all. Outside of the few exceptions, Tom Brady being the obvious one, Russell Wilson, Jimmy Garoppolo, most of your component starting QBs are first round choices.

Now, sometimes that strategy of taking or wanting a QB in the first has failed, depending on the guy. For the Lions, Joey Harrington was an obvious flop. For me personally, in hindsight, I'm obviously an idiot for thinking Connor Cook would be a component NFL starter. The jury is still out on Tua.

 With Malik Willis I might be willing to make an exception to this rule. If Brad Holmes and co have really done their homework on Malik, then pick him. I have enough trust, based on what Holmes has done thus far, to not get disappointed or worked up about him taking his future, franchise QB in any other round than one.

If Holmes takes anyone other than Willis, I think I'll be disappointed. I'm no QB expert and I've had my share of bad takes on who I thought would be good, great, and terrible. But I just can't help but think I'd feel extremely underwhelmed and disappointed if he took Corral, Howell, or Ridder at pick 46. I know we have Goff still and I know they could sit there and develop behind him. But after watching tape, reading through hours of opinion and analysis on these guys, and then seeing every NFL front office full of people way smarter than me pass on Corral, Howell, and Ridder, I just don't think I can get behind it being a QB not named Malik Willis.

Certainly arm strength and athletic ability help, but two essentials for success in the NFL are the ability to quickly process the defense and throw with timing and accuracy. Willis is underdeveloped in both those areas and the track record of acquiring those skills after the draft is poor, giving Willis a higher than normal bust potential.

[Hongbit]

They have very little high end talent at LB and DB.   Almost none of it is young.   You need these positions to win.   WR is arguably one of their deeper positions on the Lions with AmonRa, Reynolds, Chark, Cephus.   There are so many holes on the defense that I would’ve preferred to fill some instead of trading extra picks for another WR

[RedRamage]

3 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

They have very little high end talent at LB and DB.   Almost none of it is young.   You need these positions to win.   WR is arguably one of their deeper positions on the Lions with AmonRa, Reynolds, Chark, Cephus.   There are so many holes on the defense that I would’ve preferred to fill some instead of trading extra picks for another WR

I think that's a valid concern.  Obviously it's hard to know for sure how things would have shaken up had the Lions not traded up, but it's certainly possible the Lions could have gotten Cine and Dean... that's potentially two starters on defense on day one vs. Williams, who probably won't be starting until Octoberish... What we end up getting tonight will have a major effect on how I end up grading this I guess.