The Better Call Saul (Don't look until you're caught up) Thread

[Motor City Sonics]

For Howard...............

 

 

[Motor City Sonics]

I guess we have a whole new perspective on the episode title "Plan and Execution"   No titles yet available for Ep 8 - 13.    

 

Jimmy & Kimmy are horrible people.  

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

What a raw deal for Howard. He couldn't even get a little closure regarding the "why" from Kim and Jimmy before Lalo blew his brains out. The thing is, he was completely right. It wasn't money or anything like that. It was purely because they could.

I'll be so curious to see what's next. What does Lalo do in the next moments after killing Howard? How do Kim and Jimmy cleanup and move on from Howard? Baked in that is an assumption that Lalo doesn't just shoot Kim next. I do agree that Lalo has to be out of the picture entirely before we reach the Breaking Bad timeline, and both Gus and Mike have to be 100% sure he's dead or their actions in BB won't make sense.

[oblong]

So all of HHM is gone I assume the firm dissolves?

I enjoyed the horror on their faces.  They certainly deserved it and that's gotta have an effect on them going forward.  

 

[Hongbit]

I got so absorbed in the quest for answers on the Saul/Jimmy metamorphosis, what happens to Kim,  and how Gene Takovic and the rest of the BB timeline intersects that I overlooked at how amazing the coming collision between Lalo and Fring is going to be.   These are such incredibly driven and detailed bad guys that will literally go to any length to not lose.    Throw Mike Ermantraut in the middle of these two and it’s going to be amazing TV to watch.  It won’t surprise if it becomes the dominant story at the end.  

Edited May 24, 2022 by Hongbit

[Motor City Sonics]

So after all that, a happy ending.  

[Edman85]

2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

I got so absorbed in the quest for answers on the Saul/Jimmy metamorphosis, what happens to Kim,  and how Gene Takovic and the rest of the BB timeline intersects that I overlooked at how amazing the coming collision between Lalo and Fring is going to be.   These are such incredibly driven and detailed bad guys that will literally go to any length to not lose.    Throw Mike Ermantraut in the middle of these two and it’s going to be amazing TV to watch.  It won’t surprise if it becomes the dominant story at the end.  

I'd go so far to say that it reached its climax. The after-effects of Howard dying by gunshot in the home of Jimmy and Kim is enough to handle the upcoming downfall. There might be some standoff with Gus and Lalo, but it seems more likely the Feds take him down. Gus wants to maintain peace, and there is somewhat peace four years later. I don't think Gus and the cartel are working together down the road if Gus/Lalo come to blows now.

[Hongbit]

14 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I'd go so far to say that it reached its climax. The after-effects of Howard dying by gunshot in the home of Jimmy and Kim is enough to handle the upcoming downfall. There might be some standoff with Gus and Lalo, but it seems more likely the Feds take him down. Gus wants to maintain peace, and there is somewhat peace four years later. I don't think Gus and the cartel are working together down the road if Gus/Lalo come to blows now.

I hope you are wrong but we will all find out in in a few more weeks.   I would love an epic final showdown between these two.    
 

Lalo isn’t in BB except for a mention so they can go many ways with the storyline.   I don’t believe that he told anyone from the cartel what he’s up to.  Only Hector knows what he’s doing and it appears  Lalo is waiting to get his proof before sharing his plan with Eladio.   It would be easy for Fring to make him disappear and nobody from the cartel to ever know the wiser.   He just needs to secure Lalo’s camcorder.   

Edited May 24, 2022 by Hongbit

[lordstanley]

Way to go, Howard, see what happens when you turn into a Coke-head? You get blown away by a drug lord.

Edited May 24, 2022 by lordstanley

[Motor City Sonics]

38 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Way to go, Howard, see what happens when you turn into a Coke-head? You get blown away by a drug lord.

you are one mean Canadian. 

[Edman85]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:59 PM, Edman85 said:

My predictions for tomorrow:

-the drugging backfires. "Plan and execution" seems like a foreshadowy pun. Another but of foreshadowing earlier in the season. Cliff in the prostitute scene tells Kim "I hear this place makes a killer latte." Killing Howard accidentally seems like an easy prediction. Killing Cliff accidentally when Howard refuses the coffee seems like something that could really make Kim feel the type of guilt that drives her away from Albuquerque.

-Lalo comes back. I hate to go back to Kim but if she is the only one without Mike's guys watching her, that would seem to be the logical target, as much as they have been trying to hint at a Lalo/Gus showdown.

-The D Day stuff, Omaha Beach, Gene going to Omaha, Kim from Nebraska... can't be a coincidence. 

 

Got some stuff right.

[Edman85]

If exoneration is needed going forward I am fairly certain Howard was recording trying to get a confession 

[Tigeraholic1]

[Motown Bombers]

I decided to watch Breaking Bad again and Better Call Saul. On BCS, the first episode of each season opens with a Gene scene. Season 6 did not open with a Gene scene which leads me to believe the series will end with Gene. Lalo certainly has to do die in BCS. Gus antagonizes Hector after killing Eladio that all Salamancas are dead which means Lalo is out of the picture. Speaking of Eladio's death, I noticed the same bottle of liquor used to poison Eladio and his crew was the same bottle Saul buys where he runs into the judge with the broken arm. When Saul is kidnapped he says it wasn't me it was Ignacio and then says Lalo didn't send you? Prominent characters who were in BCS and not in Breaking Bad have died such as Chuck, Nacho and Howard. It makes me think Kim and Lalo are next. I also have a feeling Gene is going to die as well. Perhaps he ends up being set on fire like Chuck. 

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I decided to watch Breaking Bad again and Better Call Saul. On BCS, the first episode of each season opens with a Gene scene. Season 6 did not open with a Gene scene which leads me to believe the series will end with Gene. Lalo certainly has to do die in BCS. Gus antagonizes Hector after killing Eladio that all Salamancas are dead which means Lalo is out of the picture. Speaking of Eladio's death, I noticed the same bottle of liquor used to poison Eladio and his crew was the same bottle Saul buys where he runs into the judge with the broken arm. When Saul is kidnapped he says it wasn't me it was Ignacio and then says Lalo didn't send you? Prominent characters who were in BCS and not in Breaking Bad have died such as Chuck, Nacho and Howard. It makes me think Kim and Lalo are next. I also have a feeling Gene is going to die as well. Perhaps he ends up being set on fire like Chuck. 

I don't think Kim dies and it is possible the Lalo is actually alive.  Just because she isn't in Breaking Bad doesn't mean she's dead.  We just never see Saul Goodman's life away from the BB storylines.  We never see his home.  They have really done the shocking death of three main characters already.    I think there is a very good chance that Kim has used Ed the Vacuum Cleaner guy, but she could be in Witness Protection and she could be in jail.   Remember the flash forward scene in BCS where a phone call was expected at 3pm (once a year) and Saul ask Francesca to make it because he had to skedaddle.   I think that call is Kim.    We do know that Gene appears as the poster shows Gene putting on a red suit jacket.  Gene is black and white,  Saul is colorful.  He is going back to ABQ for something.  Maybe to settle a score.  Maybe Lalo IS still out there and Gene is going to kill him.   I don't know but I think the series probably ends with Gene and as soon as that jacket goes on the whole scene will turn to color.  I know, whatever it is, it won't disappoint.    I will be sad to see this amazing show go.  I've never seen two shows with such attention to detail and incredible continuity and editing.  Not even The Sopranos.  

 

[MichiganCardinal]

Ugh. Just so good.

I was insistent to rewatch all of BB and BCS 1-5 before diving into season six. I thought I could do it before the season premier but a recent move delayed me. I just finished episode seven. A knee-jerk reaction for sure, but I believe BCS may be even better than Breaking Bad, which I didn’t think was possible for a prequel. Breaking Bad had a slow start to it, I remember I false started that series twice when it first came out before I stuck to it (and was rewarded immensely). I’ve never felt like walking away from BCS, not once. While I’m sure that part of that is assisted by how good  BB was, it speaks volumes about the show’s writers that even with set pieces for the “end” they are making this so damn engaging. I also think the characters are more poignant and precise to their role in BCS. I was part of the anti-Skyler group during BB, which I know is a controversial take, so I’ll just leave it as that I don’t dislike the portrayal of any of the BCS characters in a similar way.

I really liked Howard’s character. A dick at times, but clearly a morally just person, of which there are fewer and fewer in the show as it goes on. In his final scene, I felt really bad for him (ugh). As was mentioned above, he was right. Jimmy and Kim didn’t have to do any of what they did. They did it because they could, same as they were playing the stock broker at the bar as Viktor-with-a-k and Giselle, though at least he was designed to be obnoxious and unlikeable….. I think they ultimately stage Howard’s death as a suicide though, possibly with the help of Mike/Fring, to avoid questions.

I don’t think Kim dies. I think that would be too “easy” an ending in a way, and I personally think Jimmy wouldn’t have been able to be the Saul Goodman we knew in BB if she had tragically died shortly beforehand in the timeline. He would have been distraught and may have left the law entirely. As for what does happen to her, I could see prison. I could see witness protection if she rolls on Lalo… maybe even forced servitude as an attorney for the Cartel, similar to how Jesse was treated by Uncle Jack and the white supremacists in El Camino. Thinking outside the box on that last one. It would have to be something significant that Jimmy wouldn’t go looking for her before becoming Gene. Though I think she is who he will be going to when we next see Gene.

I don’t know that Lalo dies either, because I think it’s something everyone loyal to Gilligan expects (so he could flip it on us). They seem to have played the “Lalo didn’t send you?!” line from BB like a fiddle and I don’t think they would ignore it in crafting Lalo’s fate….. BUT I don’t know how they end this Salamanca/Fring war short of Lalo’s death. Lalo isn’t going to just pack his bags and leave everything at this point, short of something huge and unforeseen. He’s chips all in on causing Fring’s death.

It’s just so damn good. Give me a Mike spin-off, a Fring spin-off, a damn Beanie Baby court employee spin-off, if Gillian writes it it will be gold.

[Hongbit]

I think Kim is on one of the planes that crash over Albuquerque in BB.  Maybe Lalo too. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Hongbit

[Motown Bombers]

12 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Ugh. Just so good.

I was insistent to rewatch all of BB and BCS 1-5 before diving into season six. I thought I could do it before the season premier but a recent move delayed me. I just finished episode seven. A knee-jerk reaction for sure, but I believe BCS may be even better than Breaking Bad, which I didn’t think was possible for a prequel. Breaking Bad had a slow start to it, I remember I false started that series twice when it first came out before I stuck to it (and was rewarded immensely). I’ve never felt like walking away from BCS, not once. While I’m sure that part of that is assisted by how good  BB was, it speaks volumes about the show’s writers that even with set pieces for the “end” they are making this so damn engaging. I also think the characters are more poignant and precise to their role in BCS. I was part of the anti-Skyler group during BB, which I know is a controversial take, so I’ll just leave it as that I don’t dislike the portrayal of any of the BCS characters in a similar way.

I really liked Howard’s character. A dick at times, but clearly a morally just person, of which there are fewer and fewer in the show as it goes on. In his final scene, I felt really bad for him (ugh). As was mentioned above, he was right. Jimmy and Kim didn’t have to do any of what they did. They did it because they could, same as they were playing the stock broker at the bar as Viktor-with-a-k and Giselle, though at least he was designed to be obnoxious and unlikeable….. I think they ultimately stage Howard’s death as a suicide though, possibly with the help of Mike/Fring, to avoid questions.

I don’t think Kim dies. I think that would be too “easy” an ending in a way, and I personally think Jimmy wouldn’t have been able to be the Saul Goodman we knew in BB if she had tragically died shortly beforehand in the timeline. He would have been distraught and may have left the law entirely. As for what does happen to her, I could see prison. I could see witness protection if she rolls on Lalo… maybe even forced servitude as an attorney for the Cartel, similar to how Jesse was treated by Uncle Jack and the white supremacists in El Camino. Thinking outside the box on that last one. It would have to be something significant that Jimmy wouldn’t go looking for her before becoming Gene. Though I think she is who he will be going to when we next see Gene.

I don’t know that Lalo dies either, because I think it’s something everyone loyal to Gilligan expects (so he could flip it on us). They seem to have played the “Lalo didn’t send you?!” line from BB like a fiddle and I don’t think they would ignore it in crafting Lalo’s fate….. BUT I don’t know how they end this Salamanca/Fring war short of Lalo’s death. Lalo isn’t going to just pack his bags and leave everything at this point, short of something huge and unforeseen. He’s chips all in on causing Fring’s death.

It’s just so damn good. Give me a Mike spin-off, a Fring spin-off, a damn Beanie Baby court employee spin-off, if Gillian writes it it will be gold.

Lalo almost certainly has to be dead. When Gus kills Don Eladio and his family, he goes back to Hector and says all of them are dead and the Salamanca name dies with Hector. Lalo has been a big figure and disruptor. If he's still around in Breaking Bad, I couldn't imagine he would only get one passing mention. Gus wasn't introduced in Breaking Bad until season three so Lalo could still very much be alive in the beginning of Breaking Bad. It would seem obvious that Mike and/or Gus kills Lalo but I have a feeling it will be something unexpected like Lalo killing Howard. 

I'm also reminded that Skinny P set the meeting up between Tuco and Jesse since he met Tuco while in prison. Tuco is currently in jail so we may have a Skinny P sighting. The scene where Walt bombs Tuco's hideout is where we may first be introduced to Walt and Jesse. 

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Lalo almost certainly has to be dead. When Gus kills Don Eladio and his family, he goes back to Hector and says all of them are dead and the Salamanca name dies with Hector. Lalo has been a big figure and disruptor. If he's still around in Breaking Bad, I couldn't imagine he would only get one passing mention. Gus wasn't introduced in Breaking Bad until season three so Lalo could still very much be alive in the beginning of Breaking Bad. It would seem obvious that Mike and/or Gus kills Lalo but I have a feeling it will be something unexpected like Lalo killing Howard. 

That's a good point. I started talking myself into Lalo having to die while writing that post. We've even seen earlier in BCS that prison won't stop him from orchestrating chaos and attacks. Though an angle of him being arrested again would be interesting as it relates to Saul and his relationships in the courthouse, I'm not sure there is enough time left in the series. It makes more sense for Lalo to die, perhaps as you said at the hands of an unexpected character... Mrs. Nguyen, Irene, or Kaylee?? 🙂 

I missed the old site while re-watching everything. It used to be fun to watch the episodes and read the takes as the episodes aired in those old threads.

 

[Motor City Sonics]

3 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I missed the old site while re-watching everything. It used to be fun to watch the episodes and read the takes as the episodes aired in those old threads.

 

Stupid legalized sports betting.............

[Edman85]

I've been jogging my memory, and trying to rewatch Saul... A few things.

There is always foreshadowing galore. I'm only on Season 3 of the rewatch, but one such hint in seemingly throwaway lines came in the first scene where Chuck went to the hospital. The doctor warned that he was a danger to himself because the lanterns could burn the house down.

I don't think Kim ends up dead unless Jimmy schemes against her and it goes too far. This happened with Chuck. It happened with Howard. It happened with Jimmy's dad.

If we end up in the Breaking Bad timeline, some loose ends related to the main characters of this show. Saul poisoning Brock? Saul trying to get Mike's granddaughter her money after he died? The latter one seems like a big one, since the granddaughter seems to show up in a lot of episodes.

[Edman85]

One of Gus's first scenes is him doing a meet-and-greet with the Fire Department... "While I hope I don't need your services..."

[Edman85]

The flash forward where Saul and Franceska are shredding documents, they hint at a call at a specific time.

 

That reeks of Kim's jail term maybe coming to an end.

[Motor City Sonics]

20 hours ago, Edman85 said:

The flash forward where Saul and Franceska are shredding documents, they hint at a call at a specific time.

 

That reeks of Kim's jail term maybe coming to an end.

Or maybe Kim is in witness protection and they had an agreement for a call at a specific time every year.    There is a chance we get our answer in a flash-forward tonight. 

 

As excited as I am to see the fallout from what happened last.................I am also sad - because the end of this great show in this great Vince Gilligan/Peter Gould Universe is coming.    I know people have talked about spin offs, but I don't think it's likely at this point.   Whatever happens in the next 6 episodes, I feel like it's going to be very final. 

There is an awful lot of ground to make up to get the Walter & Jessie, so there must be a time jump somewhere and I also think we'll get a full Gene episode that ends it.   It will start in black & white but the second he puts on that red suit and tells the world who he is - it goes full color. 

 

[MichiganCardinal]

I can't remember the last time I was waiting to watch a TV show as it first aired... may have been The Following when that was airing on FOX.