The Idiocracy of Donald J. Trump

[Tigeraholic1]

[Edman85]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Well Edman said he voted for Johnson because of Hillary's emails. He 100% knew that Johnson was not going to win so what exactly was the point of the vote? What exactly made Johnson a better candidate other than he wasn't Hillary or Trump? 

Massachusetts doesn't matter so I guess it's ok to throw away your vote there. 

I was holding out hope for Utah voting for McMullin and somehow the thing throwing it to a House that wasn't under his wing at that point.

I was anti Trump and hated the man too, but hated Clinton and get drilled into my head many times a year how dangerous and illegal it is to be sloppy with data. Obviously we know now everybody does it, but if you are familiar with the cartoon character in that meme, you know where I'm coming from. Romad may. Micro likely does. IYKYK. If I could do it all over again, I would have voted for Clinton and Trump would have won Florida by 112,910 votes instead.

I understand that some MSNBC hosts have repeated these talking points. I don't watch that crap, but the same people that suddenly brought up Aleppo the exact same time blame third party voters, say Roberts and Alito weren't nominated by somebody who won the popular vote, and just repeat these damn talking points that had to originate from somewhere.

Back to my ignored list...

[pfife]

5 hours ago, ewsieg said:

There is some legitimacy to this complaint, but there has been reporting about how the felony charges had to have been done (using a fed statute that he doesn't even have authority to charge on) and if in fact that is what was done here, it is weak sauce.   

I can say my personal opinion, I really wanted GA to be the first charges.  I feel like that's the stronger case on much bigger charges.  

the reporting hasn't been very good.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

And I agree that life is better without politics

the problem is that when enough people stop paying attention, that's when the crazies take over. That's basically what has happened in the US in this era. In a sense you can say we got fat and happy and just assumed everything would keep going on autopilot. It had been a very long time - the 1930s and the Great Depression really, since any  foundational structures or social contract assumptons of the US had been seriously threatened or questioned. The very idea of a serious threat to the body politic and the need to do anything about it had long since passed from living memory.

Sane people can either re-learn how to do national politics sanely, or watch the crazies continue to collapse everything.

Edited April 1, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

8 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I was holding out hope for Utah voting for McMullin and somehow the thing throwing it to a House that wasn't under his wing at that point.

I was anti Trump and hated the man too, but hated Clinton and get drilled into my head many times a year how dangerous and illegal it is to be sloppy with data. Obviously we know now everybody does it, but if you are familiar with the cartoon character in that meme, you know where I'm coming from. Romad may. Micro likely does. IYKYK. If I could do it all over again, I would have voted for Clinton and Trump would have won Florida by 112,910 votes instead.

I understand that some MSNBC hosts have repeated these talking points. I don't watch that crap, but the same people that suddenly brought up Aleppo the exact same time blame third party voters, say Roberts and Alito weren't nominated by somebody who won the popular vote, and just repeat these damn talking points that had to originate from somewhere.

Back to my ignored list...

I don't watch MSNBC or any cable news for that matter. Given how close the election was, people voting for Jill Stein who we now know to be a Russian asset who was used to syphon votes from Hillary and it worked. Her vote total in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin was the difference in the election. No one voted for Stein because she was a good candidate. You admitted you voted for Johnson because of Hillary's emails. That's fine as long as you can live with your vote. Apparently back in 2016 a candidate who was suspected of colluding with Russia, mocked disabled people, talked about groping women, and whatever else I can't remember was basically the same as the email lady. 

Oh well, guess I'm your ignore list now? Apparently I must of been on it at one point, removed, and then back on? Perhaps you need to go outside and smell the flowers. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Motown Bombers

[Tiger337]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the problem is that when enough people stop paying attention, that's when the crazies take over. That's basically what has happened in the US in this era. In a sense you can say we got fat and happy and just assumed everything would keep going on autopilot. It had been a very long time - the 1930s and the Great Depression really, since any  foundational structures or social contract assumptons of the US had been seriously threatened or questioned. The very idea of a serious threat to the body politic and the need to do anything about it had long since passed from living memory.

Sane people can either re-learn how to do national politics sanely, or watch the crazies continue to collapse everything.

The problem is there are a LOT more crazies than I realized.  Paying more attention to politics hasn't given me more hope or any feeling that I can do anything about it.  It doesn't even make me feel smarter.  It just gets me irritated.  

Edited April 1, 2023 by Tiger337

[Motown Bombers]

In 2016, the top two 3rd party candidates in Wisconsin received over 130,000 votes. In 2020, the top two received 43,000. Joe Biden won Wisconsin in 2020 by roughly the same margin as Trump did in 2016. 

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

In 2016, the top two 3rd party candidates in Wisconsin received over 130,000 votes. In 2020, the top two received 43,000. Joe Biden won Wisconsin in 2020 by roughly the same margin as Trump did in 2016. 

That's because people thought that Biden was a better candidate than Trump.  Maybe people didn't think that about Clinton at the time.  

[Edman85]

17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The problem is there are a LOT more crazies than I realized.  Paying more attention to politics hasn't given me more hope or any feeling that I can do anything about it.  It doesn't even make me feel smarter.  It just gets me irritated.  

Covey's circles of influence and concern seem apropos...

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That's because people thought that Biden was a better candidate than Trump.  Maybe people didn't think that about Clinton at the time.  

I still don't understand what made Clinton such a bad candidate and what made Stein or Johnson better candidates. It's also possible that people realized they screwed up and threw away their vote in 2016 and weren't going to do that in 2020. It's also why turnout was much higher in 2020. I'm not sure what makes Biden a significantly better candidate than Hillary. I still can't even wrap my head around the logic of wasting my time to vote for Johnson or Stein knowing both of them were going to lose. I suppose it would be for down ballot. Ron Johnson got about 70,000 more votes than Trump and Feingold got about the same as Hillary. In that case, if you don't like Trump, you could vote for Hillary since one of the two were going to win. Guess it's water under the bridge now. We just have to deal with those choices for generations now.  When they have grandchildren, they can tell them I didn't vote for Trump I voted for Gary Johnson. When they ask who that it is, they can tell them I don't know but he's not Hillary Clinton and didn't have a private email server that we are aware of. 

[Tiger337]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I still don't understand what made Clinton such a bad candidate and what made Stein or Johnson better candidates. It's also possible that people realized they screwed up and threw away their vote in 2016 and weren't going to do that in 2020. It's also why turnout was much higher in 2020. I'm not sure what makes Biden a significantly better candidate than Hillary. I still can't even wrap my head around the logic of wasting my time to vote for Johnson or Stein knowing both of them were going to lose. I suppose it would be for down ballot. Ron Johnson got about 70,000 more votes than Trump and Feingold got about the same as Hillary. In that case, if you don't like Trump, you could vote for Hillary since one of the two were going to win. Guess it's water under the bridge now. We just have to deal with those choices for generations now.  When they have grandchildren, they can tell them I didn't vote for Trump I voted for Gary Johnson. When they ask who that it is, they can tell them I don't know but he's not Hillary Clinton and didn't have a private email server that we are aware of. 

Their grandchildren probably won't even know who Hillary Clinton is.  They'll know Trump.  They'll want to know why America allowed a mafioso clown be President.  

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Their grandchildren probably won't even know who Hillary Clinton is.  They'll know Trump.  They'll want to know why America allowed a mafioso clown be President.  

First lady, US senator, secretary of state, first female candidate of a major political party. Yeah, they'll know who she is. 

*EDIT*

Well, maybe not in Florida since that will be banned from schools.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Motown Bombers

[Motor City Sonics]

12 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

First lady, US senator, secretary of state, first female candidate of a major political party. Yeah, they'll know who she is. 

*EDIT*

Well, maybe not in Florida since that will be banned from schools.

They'll just airbrush her out of pictures like that Jewish newspaper did covering Obama & Co. watching the Bin Laden raid.   You know, they can't show women in photographs - because reasons.      Another in a long list of reasons I hate all religions.   

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

First lady, US senator, secretary of state, first female candidate of a major political party. Yeah, they'll know who she is. 

*EDIT*

Well, maybe not in Florida since that will be banned from schools.

It depends on who "they" are.  Trump will be a lot more well known.  

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Maybe they weren't trying to accomplish anything.  They were voting for who they thought was the best candidate.  If Clinton ...

I think the critical issue was that not enough people knew exactly how over-the-top dangerous Trump was in 2016 so they did not have enough evidence to vote Dem no matter who the candidate was. And yes there was a lot of hatred for Hillary...

I'm not saying that if 2016 were a do-over that Hillary would win in a landslide...

But she would win.

The 3rd party votes would drop to a minimum... and the Independents would swing to Clinton, not Trump. Just like in 2020...

My 2 cents.

[Motown Bombers]

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I think the critical issue was that not enough people knew exactly how over-the-top dangerous Trump was in 2016 so they did not have enough evidence to vote Dem no matter who the candidate was. And yes there was a lot of hatred for Hillary...

I'm not saying that if 2016 were a do-over that Hillary would win in a landslide...

But she would win.

The 3rd party votes would drop to a minimum... and the Independents would swing to Clinton, not Trump. Just like in 2020...

My 2 cents.

I also know there were people who simply sat it out but would have voted for Hillary. I personally know more people who assumed Hillary was going to win and just didn't bother. 

[1984Echoes]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I also know there were people who simply sat it out but would have voted for Hillary. I personally know more people who assumed Hillary was going to win and just didn't bother. 

Nobody is sitting on the sidelines anymore.

Not anyone who cares about Democracy in America.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think it makes him look like a pig and I would bet a small majority of adults agree.  However, I don't think most view it as a major criminal offense.  

I agree that a small majority thinks it makes him look like a pig, and a large minority thinks it makes him look cool.

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Yes, you are right.  I am just concerned with how it is going to be viewed and I am disappointed that this one came up first.  The other cases might all get slowed down enough where nothing happens before November, 2024.    

This is where I’m at. Of course I understand separate entities are not coordinating their efforts for maximum impact against Trump. If that were happening, there would be something to the charges that this is all politically motivated. But I am concerned that if they go to the mat on the sex thing and lose, he will appear exonerated in the eyes of those marginal voters who had peeled off from him in 2020 and they’ll go right back to him in 2024.

Edited April 1, 2023 by chasfh

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the problem is that when enough people stop paying attention, that's when the crazies take over. That's basically what has happened in the US in this era. In a sense you can say we got fat and happy and just assumed everything would keep going on autopilot. It had been a very long time - the 1930s and the Great Depression really, since any  foundational structures or social contract assumptons of the US had been seriously threatened or questioned. The very idea of a serious threat to the body politic and the need to do anything about it had long since passed from living memory.

Sane people can either re-learn how to do national politics sanely, or watch the crazies continue to collapse everything.

I think a big part of what has gotten us fat and happy is that we are bombarded by easy entertainment options 24/7, so people don’t have room in their heads to think deeply about serious issues. That obviously was not the case during the Depression. Back then, people were largely unemployed with no money for entertainment, certainly not ten dollars or more for a radio, perhaps not even a dime for a movie, so they had lots of time to sit around and ruminate about their circumstances and the causes behind them. We have an increasing number of people sliding into desperate circumstances today as well, but even they have cheap phones loaded with social media and games to keep them distracted—or, to put it more generously, to provide them a break from the constant drumbeat this is their increasingly shitty lives. And maybe the most unfortunate thing is that part of that entertainment is the bomb-throwing populist rhetoric that’s driving our divisiveness today. Who knows how we can extract ourselves from this.

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

I think the critical issue was that not enough people knew exactly how over-the-top dangerous Trump was in 2016 so they did not have enough evidence to vote Dem no matter who the candidate was.

I knew, which is why I posted that I was thrilled that Trump won the 2016 Republican nomination, because I envisioned people lining up at the polls at two in the morning eager for their chance to vote against the guy, because I thought for sure everybody knew how over-the-top dangerous he was. Once I started hearing from several others at MTS that my posts about Trump were Alarmist Non-sense, that’s when I started getting concerned about the election. Even the morning of the election, surveys still had Hillary up by double digits or close to it, but once polls started closing at 8pm showing coin-flip states going to Trump and so-called safe blue states still not decided, that’s when I knew it was all over. God, what a nightmare it was to live through all that.

[chasfh]

It’s gotten very dark in here. Stormy Daniels knows how to lighten the mood. She is the Dolly Parton of porn.

 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I knew, which is why I posted that I was thrilled that Trump won the 2016 Republican nomination, because I envisioned people lining up at the polls at two in the morning eager for their chance to vote against the guy, because I thought for sure everybody knew how over-the-top dangerous he was. Once I started hearing from several others at MTS that my posts about Trump were Alarmist Non-sense, that’s when I started getting concerned about the election. Even the morning of the election, surveys still had Hillary up by double digits or close to it, but once polls started closing at 8pm showing coin-flip states going to Trump and so-called safe blue states still not decided, that’s when I knew it was all over. God, what a nightmare it was to live through all that.

There might have been one or two polls that had Clinton up by double digits a week before the election,  but the average poll and the state polls made it look like Trump had a legitimate shot.  I think it was something like a 20% of Trump winning which was widely misinterpreted as Clinton winning in a land slide.  That was like saying, you need a .200 hitter to get a hit to win the game in the bottom of the 9th or the game is over.  No good fan would assume the game was lost at this point.  They wouldn't expect a win, but they would stay to watch the finish because they know it has happened before.  But ye, I understand that someone who doesn't understand probability might have stayed home instead of voting.     

Edited April 1, 2023 by Tiger337

[CMRivdogs]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I knew, which is why I posted that I was thrilled that Trump won the 2016 Republican nomination, because I envisioned people lining up at the polls at two in the morning eager for their chance to vote against the guy, because I thought for sure everybody knew how over-the-top dangerous he was. Once I started hearing from several others at MTS that my posts about Trump were Alarmist Non-sense, that’s when I started getting concerned about the election. Even the morning of the election, surveys still had Hillary up by double digits or close to it, but once polls started closing at 8pm showing coin-flip states going to Trump and so-called safe blue states still not decided, that’s when I knew it was all over. God, what a nightmare it was to live through all that.

I think I got a bit concerned about a week or so before the election. I talked to a Hillary canvasser in our subdivision. I asked her how it was going and she shook her head. That was a neighborhood established in the late 80s, upper middle class, an interesting mix of 40-60 in age and several families that had migrated several years ago, one that you might expect to vote GOP pre Trump. She said it was the older immigrants (mix of Italian, Armenian, and some Middle Easterners) that were very much anti Clinton.

quick edit...this is representative of the neighborhood.

https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/48331/

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by CMRivdogs

[smr-nj]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

This is where I’m at. Of course I understand separate entities are not coordinating their efforts for maximum impact against Trump. If that were happening, there would be something to the charges that this is all politically motivated. But I am concerned that if they go to the mat on the sex thing and lose, he will appear exonerated in the eyes of those marginal voters who had peeled off from him in 2020 and they’ll go right back to him in 2024.

It frustrates me to see people refer to these pending criminal charges as a “sex thing”. I think we’ll see when they unsealed the charges, that there is fraud involved, financial fraud, tax fraud, campaign law violations and probably conspiracy charges (as it relates to finance). It just truly frustrates the hell out of me to see it referred to as “the sex thing“. I’ll say it again I couldn’t give a $&@£ to Whom he sticks and where he sticks it. Don’t care.
These are criminal charges! Not a sex thing.
 

None of you know if the charges will ever come from Georgia, or from the Fed. So let’s just keep our eye on the ball.
 

Also, from what I’m hearing, even as he is booked for these charges, in New York, chances are this particular trial wouldn’t come to the actual trial phase  For almost a year. Georgia and the federal entities will probably press charges against Trump sooner than that, and their trials would also probably start faster than this New York one. But let’s not just throw this to the wayside, these are criminal charges.