The Idiocracy of Donald J. Trump

[CMRivdogs]

 

[Tiger337]

You guys are right  Trump killed his sister.  She knew him well:

 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

We're heading back to the days of powerful moguls like Carnegie, Vanderbilt and Rockefeller. Just don't expect that any of the current Robber Barons will leave any monuments for the public good. 

yeah - that's there's the rub. In the 19th century 'Noblesse Oblige' was still a live concept. Now it's all about whether you can get a bigger Yacht built than that Russian guy. I never cared for Bill Gates when he ran Microsoft, but I give him some credit for bucking the trend. Buffett has always claimed he is going to give most of his away, it will be interesting to see what he actually does with it.

[CMRivdogs]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah - that's there's the rub. In the 19th century 'Noblesse Oblige' was still a live concept. Now it's all about whether you can get a bigger Yacht built than that Russian guy. I never cared for Bill Gates when he ran Microsoft, but I give him some credit for bucking the trend. Buffett has always claimed he is going to give most of his away, it will be interesting to see what he actually does with it.

There are a few Foundations out there actually doing something. DuPont is another one besides Gates, and a lot may be doing it very quietly. My wife does a bit of work on the edges non profit world.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

To me this is where it's different from 2016...they've had 7 years to organize for the Erdogan like takeover of the Republic. They have a blueprint (with the backing of the Federalist Society) including loyalty oaths and the complete takeover of the Justice Department

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/13/trump-loyalists-2024-presidential-election?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Fascist authoritarianism.

Not hyperbole.

[Tigerbomb13]

3 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

To me this is where it's different from 2016...they've had 7 years to organize for the Erdogan like takeover of the Republic. They have a blueprint (with the backing of the Federalist Society) including loyalty oaths and the complete takeover of the Justice Department

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/13/trump-loyalists-2024-presidential-election?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

This is why a second Trump presidency would be much more dangerous than the first. Him and his loyalists know what they can and can’t get away with, and if he gets all the right people in place, he can get away with a lot more. This isn’t alarmist to think with the right people in place, the damage to this country could be immeasurable. 

[mtutiger]

Just incredible

[Tiger337]

28 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Just incredible

I think he has a point.  Trump used Trump language and Clinton used Clinton language.  Of course, vermin is worse than deplorable, but Clinton should be smart enough to know better.  Just a really dumb and arrogant statement on her part.   The Republicans used it to their advantage.  Let's see if the Democrats can do the same.  Probably not because Trump will say something worse this week.  

[smr-nj]

Oh, **** no.

 

[gehringer_2]

56 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think he has a point.  Trump used Trump language and Clinton used Clinton language.  Of course, vermin is worse than deplorable, but Clinton should be smart enough to know better.  Just a really dumb and arrogant statement on her part.   The Republicans used it to their advantage.  Let's see if the Democrats can do the same.  Probably not because Trump will say something worse this week.  

I don't think the comparison is particularly apt. Hillary's comment was not bad because of the language or any implicit violence, but because her exact phrase "basket of deplorables" was a case of total class based dismissal. It was taken as a window into an elitist/privileged mindset that dovetailed so well with enough average voters' predispositions about the Clintons that it stuck.

Trump calling people 'vermin' is classic fascist dehumanization agitprop which is always the prelude to the eventual moral justification for discrimination, abuse or violence against the targeted people.

I don't think they are in the same league at all. One was political stupidity and a classic example of a politician saying what they really mean by mistake. The second has all the hallmarks of a much deeper and threatening moral degeneracy and spoken with intent to mean exactly what was said.

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

Politically Hillary’s was worse because it confirmed her potential voters skepticism towards her and I do think people bailed.  “See… they think are all low class bums.”  It was anti populist.  It helped create the Obama/Trump voter. Which was a thing. 
 

academically Trumps was worse.  But political is what matters.  An educated and well thought out vote based on issues and studying is cancelled by someone who “aint voting for no bitch because they they think they are better than us”

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't think the comparison is particularly apt. Hillary's comment was not bad because of the language or any implicit violence, but because her exact phrase "basket of deplorables" was a case of total class based dismissal. It was taken a window into an elitist/privileged mindset that dovetailed so well with the enough average voters predispositions about the Clintons that it stuck.

Trump calling people 'vermin' is classic fascist dehumanization which is always the prelude to the eventual moral justification for discrimination, abuse or violence against the targeted people.

I don't think they are in the same league at all. One was political stupidity and a classic example of a politician saying what they really mean by mistake. The second has all the hallmarks of a much deeper and threatening degeneracy.

 

I think what needs to be recognized is that, even though he delineates between various groups (ie. Communists, Marxists, etc), what he really means is everyone who is opposed to HIM. 

Even if Lee is right insofar that he is saying (which oddly enough tracks with dictators of the past) is accidental (and I don’t), it really doesn't make it any less abhorrent or unacceptable. And just explaining that away as "Trump being Trump" kinda speaks volumes with where we are as a country.

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, oblong said:

Politically Hillary’s was worse because it confirmed her potential voters skepticism towards her and I do think people bailed.  “See… they think are all low class bums.”  

The thing is, when Trump is talking about "vermin", it's not hard to think he's talking about everyone who isn't in his tent.

In that way, I think it's a lot like the Clinton gaffe, almost the inverse of her gaffe, even though it will never get the same media treatment.

Edited November 13, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, oblong said:

Politically Hillary’s was worse because it confirmed her potential voters skepticism towards her

RIght. But you can be politically foolish/inept without constituting a clear and present danger to domestic tranquility and the survival of the constitutional republic. In fact being the former sort of guarantees you aren't the latter. Which is why Trump is dangerous.

Edited November 13, 2023 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The thing is, when Trump is talking about "vermin", it's not hard to think he's talking about everyone who isn't in his tent.

In that way, I think it's a lot like the Clinton gaffe, almost the inverse of her gaffe, even though it will never get the same media treatment.

Unless it changes a vote what does it matter?  This doesn’t do anything to change a potential outcome of an election.  It’s further confirmation from what we have all known  

 He’s said crazy things his whole life and it didn’t matter. 

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I don't think the comparison is particularly apt. Hillary's comment was not bad because of the language or any implicit violence, but because her exact phrase "basket of deplorables" was a case of total class based dismissal. It was taken as a window into an elitist/privileged mindset that dovetailed so well with enough average voters' predispositions about the Clintons that it stuck.

Trump calling people 'vermin' is classic fascist dehumanization agitprop which is always the prelude to the eventual moral justification for discrimination, abuse or violence against the targeted people.

I don't think they are in the same league at all. One was political stupidity and a classic example of a politician saying what they really mean by mistake. The second has all the hallmarks of a much deeper and threatening moral degeneracy and spoken with intent to mean exactly what was said.

 

I think he used the word "vermin", not to dehumanize, but because someone like Stephen Miller told him it was a good word to use to get people worked up.  Miller knows that intellectual lefties will understand the history behind the word and MAGAs love it when intellectual lefties get worked up.  Trump loves it too.  

[oblong]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

RIght. But you can be politically foolish/inept without constituting a clear and present danger to domestic tranquility and the survival of the constitutional republic.

That’s enforced by voters though. Nobody can or will hold him accountable for saying this.  

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I think he used the word "vermin", not to dehumanize

Lee, If I'm ever in the dock, I want you on the jury. 

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, oblong said:

Unless it changes a vote what does it matter?  This doesn’t do anything to change a potential outcome of an election.  It’s further confirmation from what we have all known  

I still believe persuasion matters in elections. Last Tuesday is a good example. And turnout and consolidating support matters too. If Trump reminds one voter on the fence about staying home of why they have to vote against him, that's good in my book.

Either way, it's a long campaign and most people aren't thinking about this stuff. Scary as it is, I don't think any of these statements are beneficial to Trump at all politically in the long run.

Edited November 13, 2023 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think he used the word "vermin", not to dehumanize, but because someone like Stephen Miller told him it was a good word to use to get people worked up.  Miller knows that intellectual lefties will understand the history behind the word and MAGAs love it when intellectual lefties get worked up.  Trump loves it too.  

I dont see why it matters one way or another why it was used.

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I dont see why it matters one way or another why it was used.

I agree!

 Because it won't have any effect on the election one way or the other.  People will just view it as Trump being Trump and move onto to the next outrage later this week.    

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I agree!

 Because it won't have any effect on the election one way or the other.  People will just view it as Trump being Trump and move onto to the next outrage later this week.    

You aren't even addressing my point.

Oh well, carry on with the nihilism.

 

[oblong]

29 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I still believe persuasion matters in elections. Last Tuesday is a good example. And turnout and consolidating support matters too. If Trump reminds one voter on the fence about staying home of why they have to vote against him, that's good in my book.

Either way, it's a long campaign and most people aren't thinking about this stuff. Scary as it is, I don't think any of these statements are beneficial to Trump at all politically in the long run.

I get it but those people aren’t seeing this language anyway.   There’s a desire to condemn it but pundits and nerds like us on message boards have been doing that since 2015.  All we are doing is grading an exam that doesn’t count for any transcript or official record.  

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, oblong said:

I get it but those people aren’t seeing this language anyway.   There’s a desire to condemn it but pundits and nerds like us on message boards have been doing that since 2015.  All we are doing is grading an exam that doesn’t count for any transcript or official record.  

We'll just have to disagree with this one. And I certainly hope anyone involved in Biden's campaign doesn't approach their roles with this outlook.

[Tiger337]

31 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

You aren't even addressing my point.

Oh well, carry on with the nihilism.

 

I am not sure of your point.

Is your point that he used the phrase to facilitate an authoritarian take over of the United States of America by letting his cult know that the lefties are a bunch of filthy rodents?