mtutiger Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Is your point that he used the phrase to facilitate an authoritarian take over of the United States of America by letting his cult know that the lefties are a bunch of filthy rodents? My point is that the content speaks for itself. Arguing "why" is pedantic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: My point is that the content speaks for itself. Arguing "why" is pedantic I think there is a difference between facilitating an authoritarian take over of the country and just saying stupid stuff to get people worked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think there is a difference between facilitating an authoritarian take over of the country and just saying stupid stuff to get people worked up. "Take him seriously, not literally". Still going strong after all these years lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: "Take him seriously, not literally". Still going strong after all these years lol It is still strong among MAGAs. I don't think they view him any different than they did 8 years ago which is why his approval rating (as low as it may be) has stayed consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: It is still strong among MAGAs. Who said anything about them? That is how your response cimes across We'll leave it there... the content speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 36 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Who said anything about them? That is how your response cimes across We'll leave it there... the content speaks for itself. I think my response is fine. Not everybody has to be an alarmist. Why do you always tell me to leave it there or we'll have to agree to disagree? It's a message board. If one of us gets tired of the discussion, we can just go to a different thread or just leave and do something else. Personally, I don't think Trump has changed for 40 years. His vermin comment dosn't change anything. He has always been trash. I am probably more annoyed that people haven't figured that out than anything else. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Why do you always tell me to leave it there or we'll have to agree to disagree? It's a message board. If one of us gets tired of the discussion, we can just go to a different thread or just leave and do something else. If you don't like how I post, feel free to not engage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, mtutiger said: If you don't like how I post, feel free to not engage I think you are generally a knowledgable and reasonable poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Calling people vermin is consistent with saying that the country is "infested" with illegal immigrants. Whoever thought that one up, Bannon or Miller, deliberately made the connection between Latin Americans and insects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 The funny thing is that immigrants are healthier and live longer on average than native born Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 I do recommend logging some of these really bad Trump things, keeping a word doc somewhere with links. Just so, come September, you can start to have some of the more egregious things at the ready to some fence sitters you catch wind are planning on voting for him. Also, I'm looking for persuasive ways to convince people who seem to think he'll be a magic bullet for inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Also, I'm looking for persuasive ways to convince people who seem to think he'll be a magic bullet for inflation. he pressured Jerome Powell to keep interest rate slow and to continue QE even when, as he would always say, it was the best economy ever. That's very inflationary. ETA we repeatedly saw that he woudl chose whatever would keep the stock market high, even if that had bad consequences as not raising interest rates in a good economy obvs would. Edited November 14, 2023 by pfife 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Ask them who was the last Republican president who didn't have a recession under his watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Or mention inflation is a global problem and the US has had lower inflation than most of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 34 minutes ago, pfife said: he pressured Jerome Powell to keep interest rate slow and to continue QE even when, as he would always say, it was the best economy ever. That's very inflationary. ETA we repeatedly saw that he woudl chose whatever would keep the stock market high, even if that had bad consequences as not raising interest rates in a good economy obvs would. He was also: Running $1 Trillion annual deficits after their big Tax Cuts!!! legislation (and prior to Covid) that enriched ONLY the top 1%; which will, of course, be conveniently forgotten by every single die-hard Republican, Maga, and misguided "bad economy" voter. And he did absolutely ZERO to change the direction (up or down) of Obama's economy. In other words, it was NOT his economy, it was Obama's and Trump was just riding his coattails. I can provide statistics if anyone wants to question this. This also will, of course, be conveniently forgotten by every single die-hard Republican, Maga, and misguided "bad economy" voter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: I do recommend logging some of these really bad Trump things, keeping a word doc somewhere with links. Just so, come September, you can start to have some of the more egregious things at the ready to some fence sitters you catch wind are planning on voting for him. Also, I'm looking for persuasive ways to convince people who seem to think he'll be a magic bullet for inflation. He is promising lots of tariffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 47 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He is promising lots of tariffs Right, like last time when Canadian steel and aluminum were subjected to tariffs because of "national security". What did I do in response? I did not buy any American fruit or vegetable produce for the entire 4 years of his reign of error. Even now I will buy American produce with extreme reluctance, because I feel like it is already a slam dunk that you guys will elect him again. What a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 8 hours ago, Edman85 said: I do recommend logging some of these really bad Trump things, keeping a word doc somewhere with links. Just so, come September, you can start to have some of the more egregious things at the ready to some fence sitters you catch wind are planning on voting for him. How the hell can anyone be a fence sitter with this asshole? You either realize what a waste of oxygen he is, or you're an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, casimir said: How the hell can anyone be a fence sitter with this asshole? You either realize what a waste of oxygen he is, or you're an idiot. Their news intake involves an hour of fox news every week, not much else and they feel peer pressure to vote R. Maybe an idiot. But trying to understand WHY is how you persuade, not dismissing them. One friend I know, in his 40's, has his family basically tell him who to vote for. It was a weird dynamic when I was with him at a golf tournament and his cousins came and reminded him who to vote for in the city council election. It was really odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: Calling people vermin is consistent with saying that the country is "infested" with illegal immigrants. Whoever thought that one up, Bannon or Miller, deliberately made the connection between Latin Americans and insects. And Bannon and Miller? They'll likely be the ones in government and making policy during a Second Trump term. Definitely nothing to be concerned about! Everything is great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 11 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Their news intake involves an hour of fox news every week, not much else and they feel peer pressure to vote R. Maybe an idiot. But trying to understand WHY is how you persuade, not dismissing them. In the macro, it's why polling this far out may not be the most predictive and, despite views that votes cannot move with events, they can. People just aren't all that tuned in right now... but that will change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 tarrifs are another great example thanks for bringing them up. As Jim Cowan said, we don't even need to rely on promises that he will do it, he already did it. Trump had a weird fascination with the trade deficit, and did all sorts of things to try to equalize trade deficits regardless of whether having a trade deficit with another nation was indicative of anything bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Edman85 said: I do recommend logging some of these really bad Trump things, keeping a word doc somewhere with links. Just so, come September, you can start to have some of the more egregious things at the ready to some fence sitters you catch wind are planning on voting for him. Also, I'm looking for persuasive ways to convince people who seem to think he'll be a magic bullet for inflation. this is the way. there are a huge number of Americans who consume almost no news. they are probably more aware that Trump is the massively successful businessman who had a hit show on NBC then that he tried to overthrow the government. Was at a party this Summer and talking to some rando and mentioned J6 and he said "what ever happened with that? did Trump ever leave?" literally, he was not sure if Trump was in DC or MAL. Pretty sure that guy is going to vote in 2024. the delta in states that matter was under 100k in both 2016 and 2020 - every vote counts - at least there it does 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: this is the way. there are a huge number of Americans who consume almost no news. they are probably more aware that Trump is the massively successful businessman who had a hit show on NBC then that he tried to overthrow the government. Was at a party this Summer and talking to some rando and mentioned J6 and he said "what ever happened with that? did Trump ever leave?" literally, he was not sure if Trump was in DC or MAL. Pretty sure that guy is going to vote in 2024. the delta in states that matter was under 100k in both 2016 and 2020 - every vote counts - at least there it does I know people in real life who, despite the pretty obvious inevitability of a Biden v Trump match-up to anyone following more closely, don't actually think either will be the nominee of their respective parties. This seems important to understanding the moment IMO. And your last point is key... elections are trench warfare in this country, nobody expects mass defections from Trump over one single event. But elections are fought on the margins, and yeah, persuasion is necessary and critical to winning. Edited November 14, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Their news intake involves an hour of fox news every week, not much else and they feel peer pressure to vote R. Maybe an idiot. But trying to understand WHY is how you persuade, not dismissing them. One friend I know, in his 40's, has his family basically tell him who to vote for. It was a weird dynamic when I was with him at a golf tournament and his cousins came and reminded him who to vote for in the city council election. It was really odd. I run into the same kind of thing with some friends. They have this undying faith in the Republican party and are always talking about how terrible the democrats are even though they are not necessaily that conservative. Some don't even like Trump, but they just seem conditioned to identify as Republican. I don't think you can persuade people politically, at least not directly, because it's like a religion with some people. You just have to hope they can eventually figure it out on their own. Edited November 14, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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