pfife Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 that's messed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 22 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: He has now given the red hats explicit cover to claim that nothing that Trump says proves he’s positively impaired, and in fact, because he can seamlessly go back and forth between perfect lucidity and apparent cognitive impairment, the latter proves that he’s merely joking and being sarcastic and he’s actually aping Biden. First-class gaslight move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Seems like this would matter a lot in the J6 case.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 17 hours ago, romad1 said: This general officer needs to face punishment Don't tell a MAGA that Trump is racist. It makes them very angry. "You guys make everything about race. You guys are the ones who are racist" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 16 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Don't tell a MAGA that Trump is racist. It makes them very angry. "You guys make everything about race. You guys are the ones who are racist" The General is filling a role as the State of Texas' Adjutant General. He's wearing a US military uniform. https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/03/01/trump-speech-general-wore-uniform/ Its an act that the previous Chairman of the JCS General Milley was ashamed of when Trump walked him out to Lafayette Square during the BLM protests. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/28/mark-milley-us-general-trump-shouting-match Quote On 1 June last year, Trump raged at governors on a conference call, telling them to “toughen up” in response to protests which sometimes turned violent. “If you don’t dominate your city and your state, they’re going to walk away with you,” Trump said. “In Washington we’re going to do something people haven’t seen before.” Milley and other aides subsequently accompanied Trump on a controversial walk across Lafayette Square outside the White House, which had been violently cleared of protesters, to stage a photo-op at a church. The general later apologised. “I should not have been there,” he told students at National Defense University. “My presence in that moment, and in that environment, created the perception of the military involved in domestic politics.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 17 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Don’t worry your erstwhile pretty little head about it, Nikki. That presidency is not going to happen. I just don’t see any way on god’s green earth that the more criminal and legal trouble Trump gets in, the more voters come off the sidelines, or peel off Biden’s camp, to vote for him. In fact, I’m close to coming around to the idea/hypothesis that if the Court does end up ruling in favor of Trump’s immunity—or even better, figure out a way to rule for his immunity while ruling against similar immunity for any other president—that would be the final nail in his campaign’s coffin, since anyone with a minimally-operational prefrontal cortex would see that as proof positive that Trump cooked the Court, and that alone would frighten enough voters to race to the polls at one in the morning on Election Day to make sure they don’t lose out on the chance to vote against him to ensure his defeat. Yeah, I know I said all this in 2016, too, but I didn’t realize then that so many people simply did not know anything about the Trump I’d been reading about for thirty years. There’s practically nobody who doesn’t know about him now, and based on how Trumpsim has lost Republicans elections for three cycles now, I can’t envision any way that the electorate just does a 180 and Trump crushes Biden now, age issue or otherwise. Something else would have to happen disqualifying of Biden for Democrats to lose the White House, e.g., he truly does get indicted for gross corruption, or, he dies and Kamala runs instead. But absent that kind of October surprise, what I can basically guarantee is that voters won’t just suddenly decide that they like the cut of Trump’s jib after all because of his criminal trials and vote for him based on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 56 minutes ago, chasfh said: Don’t worry your erstwhile pretty little head about it, Nikki. That presidency is not going to happen. I just don’t see any way on god’s green earth that the more criminal and legal trouble Trump gets in, the more voters come off the sidelines, or peel off Biden’s camp, to vote for him. Unless they can be convinced that Dump is really innocent and is being politically persecuted by the left. It doesn't take a lot to convince the right that the left is more evil. And enough doubt could be planted in moderates for them to throw up their arms and decide that the whole process sucks and they just aren't going to participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Unless they can be convinced that Dump is really innocent and is being politically persecuted by the left. It doesn't take a lot to convince the right that the left is more evil. And enough doubt could be planted in moderates for them to throw up their arms and decide that the whole process sucks and they just aren't going to participate. There is no convincing the hard right. They love Trump because he’s a criminal who’s getting away with it all, or because they love chaos and want to watch the world burn, or because they sincerely already believe he is being persecuted. Those numbers are already maxed out and will not be added to, at least to any decisive degree. I understand that a marginal number of right-leaners can be talked out of Trump, and that some will turn toward him, but I would bet it’s way more the former than the latter, because most people don’t like criminals, despite what hair-on-fire people may fear. There will be no talking moderates into suddenly loving the cut of Trump’s jib because he’s being “persecuted”. That is not a moderate position. That’s a whatever-Tulsi-Gabbard-is position—flip-flop, for lack of a better descriptor at this moment. You may be right about some folks in the middle of the spectrum throwing up their hands, but only because they’re low-information people who are paying almost no attention to the news about him, and then I wouldn’t call them moderates. I would call them uncommitteds, or perhaps apathetics. But if someone is paying attention, if they are really taking in the news about Trump and not actively avoiding it because news triggers them, then they will not be apathetic about it. They will form an opinion about it, and probably a firm one. Left-leaners and dedicated liberals will not be throwing up their hands. They will be racing to the polls, and in record numbers. Adding this all up, I don’t see how Trump wins unless some unforeseen dramatic or drastic event happens between now and then to upend the calculus. Whatever that is, it won’t be the Court running out the clock on the criminal cases. I hypothesize that will hurt Trump’s election chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 51 minutes ago, chasfh said: There is no convincing the hard right. They love Trump because he’s a criminal who’s getting away with it all, or because they love chaos and want to watch the world burn, or because they sincerely already believe he is being persecuted. Those numbers are already maxed out and will not be added to, at least to any decisive degree. I understand that a marginal number of right-leaners can be talked out of Trump, and that some will turn toward him, but I would bet it’s way more the former than the latter, because most people don’t like criminals, despite what hair-on-fire people may fear. There will be no talking moderates into suddenly loving the cut of Trump’s jib because he’s being “persecuted”. That is not a moderate position. That’s a whatever-Tulsi-Gabbard-is position—flip-flop, for lack of a better descriptor at this moment. You may be right about some folks in the middle of the spectrum throwing up their hands, but only because they’re low-information people who are paying almost no attention to the news about him, and then I wouldn’t call them moderates. I would call them uncommitteds, or perhaps apathetics. But if someone is paying attention, if they are really taking in the news about Trump and not actively avoiding it because news triggers them, then they will not be apathetic about it. They will form an opinion about it, and probably a firm one. Left-leaners and dedicated liberals will not be throwing up their hands. They will be racing to the polls, and in record numbers. Adding this all up, I don’t see how Trump wins unless some unforeseen dramatic or drastic event happens between now and then to upend the calculus. Whatever that is, it won’t be the Court running out the clock on the criminal cases. I hypothesize that will hurt Trump’s election chances. I believe the group of low information voters is a lot larger than some people here think. We get caught up in our bubbles. It's like me thinking that everyone is over using batting average and pitcher wins to evaluate players because almost all the people who I talk to online have gone beyond that (unintended sales pitch!). Then I talk to casual and not so casual fans in real life who are still stuck on batting average and wins. Professionally, I am surrounded by people who are more savvy than me politically (either that or unrealistically far left), but the majority of family and friends either don't give a crap or have no idea how bad Trump is. There are a lot of people out there who know he's stupid and nasty, but "he's a businessman who knows to get things done" or he is "stupid , but he's tough so nobody will mess with him". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 To a great number of voters, Trump represents their voice in politics. Trump’s base is ANTI-Washington, period. Understand, his standing ethically or morally doesn’t matter to his supporters because he is representing their disgust with the left while he is in office. If he’s out of bounds, so what. The whole of Washington is broken. I understand the MAGA perspective. Trump is just playing within the rules of Washington politics. There are no good guys in Washington. That’s the perspective. War is war. The fact of the matter is, a Trump/Biden contest in November is a disgusting thought. We’re looking at the two lowest common denominators facing off…again. Regardless of the outcome, as a nation we lose. This is my takeaway. That this is where we are as a nation is so disappointing. I have always found politics interesting, the personalities in politics especially so. Come November, I will in all likelihood be without a choice for most offices on the ballot. If Trump has endorsed a candidate on the ballot, I’m not voting for that candidate. If a candidate on the ballot has endorsed Trump, I’m not voting for that candidate. Mitt Romney recently disclosed that he has voted for his wife Ann in 2016 and 2020. He stated she’ll get his vote in 2024 as well. She may get another vote she’s not expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 44 minutes ago, 1776 said: To a great number of voters, Trump represents their voice in politics. Trump’s base is ANTI-Washington, period. Understand, his standing ethically or morally doesn’t matter to his supporters because he is representing their disgust with the left while he is in office. If he’s out of bounds, so what. The whole of Washington is broken. I understand the MAGA perspective. Trump is just playing within the rules of Washington politics. There are no good guys in Washington. That’s the perspective. War is war. The fact of the matter is, a Trump/Biden contest in November is a disgusting thought. We’re looking at the two lowest common denominators facing off…again. Regardless of the outcome, as a nation we lose. This is my takeaway. That this is where we are as a nation is so disappointing. I have always found politics interesting, the personalities in politics especially so. Come November, I will in all likelihood be without a choice for most offices on the ballot. If Trump has endorsed a candidate on the ballot, I’m not voting for that candidate. If a candidate on the ballot has endorsed Trump, I’m not voting for that candidate. Mitt Romney recently disclosed that he has voted for his wife Ann in 2016 and 2020. He stated she’ll get his vote in 2024 as well. She may get another vote she’s not expecting. yours is a common view, that often leads people to stay home, but the logic of that still escapes me. There is always a difference between the candidates. If you can't find some difference and push the process at least incrementally in the direction you prefer, all you have done is take yourself out of the process. There is no such thing as a meaningful abstention in our process, no one cares about the principles of your stance. If you don't vote, all you do is guarantee that no one in the process will ever care what you think. Edited March 2 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 40 minutes ago, 1776 said: To a great number of voters, Trump represents their voice in politics. Trump’s base is ANTI-Washington, period. Understand, his standing ethically or morally doesn’t matter to his supporters because he is representing their disgust with the left while he is in office. If he’s out of bounds, so what. The whole of Washington is broken. I understand the MAGA perspective. Trump is just playing within the rules of Washington politics. There are no good guys in Washington. That’s the perspective. War is war. The fact of the matter is, a Trump/Biden contest in November is a disgusting thought. We’re looking at the two lowest common denominators facing off…again. Regardless of the outcome, as a nation we lose. This is my takeaway. That this is where we are as a nation is so disappointing. I have always found politics interesting, the personalities in politics especially so. Come November, I will in all likelihood be without a choice for most offices on the ballot. If Trump has endorsed a candidate on the ballot, I’m not voting for that candidate. If a candidate on the ballot has endorsed Trump, I’m not voting for that candidate. Mitt Romney recently disclosed that he has voted for his wife Ann in 2016 and 2020. He stated she’ll get his vote in 2024 as well. She may get another vote she’s not expecting. If they would admit that he's a stupid amoral asshole who only cares about himself, but they like that he is tearing things down, I could understand it. What frustrates me most is that so many actually claim that he is smart and a good patriot and wants to make things better for the working people. He most likely thinks his supporters are a bunch of losers because they aren't wealthy like him. I don't agree that Biden ranks with Dump as a lowest common denominator. I think he is unspiring and also getting too old (not so much his age but the way he carries himself), but Trump is at a whole other level of awful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ronz Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Trump is going to win by a landslide. Both by popular vote and the Electoral College. All the people I know are ***DONE*** with Democracy. They do not want it in any way, shape or form. This includes young people voting for the first time right through those who are in their late 80's. They are completely done with America as we know it and want absolutely no part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Most people are predisposed to say they are all bad no matter what. Lowest unemployment in 50 years, increases in manufacturing jobs, record union contracts, new infrastructure, billions in student debt cancelled, cap on insulin, and all the bad stuff prevented but that’s disgusting and worst common denominator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I think there is a lot of goosing of the numbers to drive up news viewership. Trump's disapproval is very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 51 minutes ago, The Ronz said: Trump is going to win by a landslide. Both by popular vote and the Electoral College. All the people I know are ***DONE*** with Democracy. They do not want it in any way, shape or form. This includes young people voting for the first time right through those who are in their late 80's. They are completely done with America as we know it and want absolutely no part of it. As we were told in the 70’s during Vietnam Nam,if you don’t like it you’re free to leave. Go live with your hero’s Putin and Orban, etc Edited March 2 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 15 minutes ago, romad1 said: I think there is a lot of goosing of the numbers to drive up news viewership. Trump's disapproval is very high. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/02/us/politics/biden-trump-times-siena-poll.html The New York Times, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, The Ronz said: Trump is going to win by a landslide. Both by popular vote and the Electoral College. All the people I know are ***DONE*** with Democracy. They do not want it in any way, shape or form. This includes young people voting for the first time right through those who are in their late 80's. They are completely done with America as we know it and want absolutely no part of it. America! Love it or leave it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 17 minutes ago, 1776 said: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/02/us/politics/biden-trump-times-siena-poll.html The New York Times, no less. I agree there is too much optimism in this forum with assuming that Biden is going to win. The polls are not backing it up. I have seen criticisms of the polls being biased in favor of Dump and that could be legitimate, but we should no way be assuming that Dump can't win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 So, what is it these democracy hating fools want? Do they want a dictatorship? An anarchy? You live in the most influential and wealthiest country in the world and you want to tear it all down and you think the alternative is going to better? How the hell does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 What about Biden and his administration is bad that is on a level that Trump is and was? Biden isn’t talking about tearing down democracy. He’s not talking about imprisoning opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: So, what is it these democracy hating fools want? Do they want a dictatorship? An anarchy? You live in the most influential and wealthiest country in the world and you want to tear it all down and you think the alternative is going to better? How the hell does that work? Like Russia but even better for the oligarchs and somewhat better for the theocrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 After 2016 I’m taking nothing for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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