romad1 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 55 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Omigosh...!!! Don't they call that... "Punitive Damages"? And isn't that... Actually... "LEGAL" (not illegal) to do?!?!?! All of us had better pray the SCOTUS doesn't give Trump ultimate immunity or whatever they want because they will scour this chat page and only esweig will be safe from his vengeance because he was fair to Trump's criminality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 8 minutes ago, romad1 said: All of us had better pray the SCOTUS doesn't give Trump ultimate immunity or whatever they want because they will scour this chat page and only esweig will be safe from his vengeance because he was fair to Trump's criminality. Trump's getting bright idea "GULAG" ideas directly from Putin... isn't he? Well, see you soon in either the Trump's Death Valley American Gulag for Liberals or the Barrow Alaska Northern Point Gulag or the Alabamy "We HATES LIBRULS" Gulag for LIBRULS in HUNTSville ALABAMY (fer 'Muricans!!!). Can we choose our own prison? I choose Barrow Alaska. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) 45 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Trump's getting bright idea "GULAG" ideas directly from Putin... isn't he? Well, see you soon in either the Trump's Death Valley American Gulag for Liberals or the Barrow Alaska Northern Point Gulag or the Alabamy "We HATES LIBRULS" Gulag for LIBRULS in HUNTSville ALABAMY (fer 'Muricans!!!). Can we choose our own prison? I choose Barrow Alaska. It would be the Gallows for you my friend. You might incite a riot. Edited March 21 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 11 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: It would be the Gallows for you my friend. You might incite a riot. If they could catch me. I would become a American Freedom Fighter guerilla with assassination of fascist American politicians my specialty skill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 (edited) 29 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: If they could catch me. I would become a American Freedom Fighter guerilla with assassination of fascist American politicians my specialty skill. Sounds like the Foreword of your next book. Edited March 21 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, Tigerbomb13 said: This will literally push zero moderates/independents to vote for Trump. The only people that will be upset about this is the cult that will always vote for him anyway. By this logic, moderates/independents that are currently undecided despite knowing what Trump is, obviously are going to vote for Trump anyway so what's the point debating what if he becomes president again because he's got it in the bag then. 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: People that commit those kinds of crimes are always wealthy and connected. That is why they don't get punished and that's not right. They should be punished more often. Why are you so sure that the penalty was exorbitant? Isn't he being asked to pay back what he gained from his criminal behavior? The judge basically grabbed a number out of the air. Despite what 1984 says, he wasn't convicted on 20 years worth of loans although I do believe they tried (and maybe succeeded) in showing he had done it as a pattern. IIRC, they focused on several more recent transactions which he could still be pursued against. 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: As for the politics, if Biden or Obama had committed those crimes, the Republicans would have been all over them. You know that 100%. Politics is nasty and Trump is an easy target, because he thinks laws do not pertain to him. You're right, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that it's the right thing to do. Speaking of crimes, Biden committed the same crime as Trump in regards to documents, but just like you say, Dems make excuses and the same republicans that made excuses for Trump, want to see Biden prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 20 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Speaking of crimes, Biden committed the same crime as Trump in regards to documents, but just like you say, Dems make excuses and the same republicans that made excuses for Trump, want to see Biden prosecuted. No, Biden didn't. He immediately returned the files. Trump had his aides hide and move them during a search. It will all come out during his trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 5 minutes ago, GoBlue23 said: Biden most certainly did not commit the same crime in regards to documents and it is absurd to try to equate the two. Trump stole hundreds of documents, lied about having them, refused to return them, returned some of them, lied and said all had been returned, had documents moved to hide them, ordered security footage deleted, enlisted others to lie and showed off documents he admitted were still classified. Biden had a handful of old documents, notified people that he had them, returned them and allowed his properties to be searched. The investigation couldn't even establish that Biden intentionally took the documents. +100. And let Trump try using that as a defense. It will immediately get shot down. If you rob a bank, you can't go to trial and say that guy over there robbed 2 banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted March 21 Author Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said: It would be the Gallows for you my friend. You might incite a riot. The gallows is too slow. That's why the Nazis did gas chambers. Much more efficient. I'd assume it would be the same here. Of course, I don't think anyone could accuse the Trump regime of being efficient. So who knows how they'll structure it all. 😏 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 39 minutes ago, ewsieg said: You're right, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that it's the right thing to do. Speaking of crimes, Biden committed the same crime as Trump in regards to documents, but just like you say, Dems make excuses and the same republicans that made excuses for Trump, want to see Biden prosecuted. I am under the impression that Biden cooperated a lot more than Trump which I think matters. It doesn't matter to Trump and his supporters, because they think he's above the law. It's like most people know they can go 10 mph above the speed limit and be ok. If they go 20 mph above, they know they are in trouble. Then one asshole goes 100 mph above the limit and tells the cop to **** off when he gets caught. Then he whines and cries victim when the cop treats him poorly. There are no excuses for someone like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 6 minutes ago, chasfh said: The gallows is too slow. That's why the Nazis did gas chambers. Much more efficient. I'd assume it would be the same here. Of course, I don't think anyone could accuse the Trump regime of being efficient. So who knows how they'll structure it all. 😏 I think Trump is more interested in humiliating people than killing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Still FOS, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 56 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: No, Biden didn't. He immediately returned the files. Trump had his aides hide and move them during a search. It will all come out during his trials. 5-6 years after he took them is immediately? Also his own Ghost writer testified that Biden read aloud some of the classified documents to him and we know the ghost writer tried to delete all of his notes regarding it after the government started investigating. Is it illegal to retain classified documents, yes. Were both Biden and Trump aware they had classified documents and never returned them....yes. Did Biden eventually forget about them because he's old...appears so. Did Trump continue to try and keep some...yes, which could result in additional charges, but wouldn't change the same initial charge that both Biden and Trump appear to both be guilty of. 26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am under the impression that Biden cooperated a lot more than Trump which I think matters. It doesn't matter to Trump and his supporters, because they think he's above the law. I absolutely think that matters when it comes to sentencing. 26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: It's like most people know they can go 10 mph above the speed limit and be ok. If they go 20 mph above, they know they are in trouble. Then one asshole goes 100 mph above the limit and tells the cop to **** off when he gets caught. Then he whines and cries victim when the cop treats him poorly. There are no excuses for someone like that. Both were going 100 mph over, Biden pulled over, was polite, invited the cop to investigate anything they wish and the cop gave him a break. Trump was going 100 mph, pulled over, told the cop off, then started a car chase until he was finally caught and the cop is throwing the book at him, as they should. But again, make no mistake both were driving 100 mph and if you believe 100mph should be punished, then both should at least face charges on that 100 mph over. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 What an embarrassment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 38 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Is it illegal to retain classified documents, yes. Were both Biden and Trump aware they had classified documents and never returned them....yes. A much greater mind and someone who investigated Biden doesn't agree. He's another right-wing wacko too; "Special counsel Robert Hur concluded in his report that the evidence investigators uncovered falls short of "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials." so...attack the source now. https://www.npr.org/2024/02/09/1230333392/biden-classified-documents-highlights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, Dan Gilmore said: Still FOS, I see. Deep into the sty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Taking the “both sides-ing” to new levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Don’t forget Mike Pence. He had documents too and wasn’t charged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 If you looked thoroughly at every VP and POTUS after leaving office you’d probably find classified docs. Scraps of papers can be classified. They over classify. It’s what you do with them and when notified that matters. It’s not complicated to figure out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I feel like this is being distorted/obfuscated and needs to be read in full: https://www.justice.gov/storage/US-v-Trump-Nauta-De-Oliveira-23-80101.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 hours ago, oblong said: If you looked thoroughly at every VP and POTUS after leaving office you’d probably find classified docs. Scraps of papers can be classified. They over classify. It’s what you do with them and when notified that matters. It’s not complicated to figure out. Absolutely true, but again, you guys are so full of hate on Trump you refuse to criticize any enemy of his. The Hur investigation found that Biden was aware he had these documents after he had left as VP. They found that he shared these with his ghost rider for a book he planned to sell to make money. They even found the ghost rider attempted to delete all of his notes regarding it. In the end they said he was too old and forgetful and as a result, didn't think they would be able to convict him. I'm not saying Trump and Biden in regards to classified docs is exactly the same scenario and one isn't worse than the other, but equally so, you bringing up Pence and comparing that with Biden is equally absurd as there is zero proof or allegations Pence knew about it or used it. That's quite some both sides-ing right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Edman85 said: I feel like this is being distorted/obfuscated and needs to be read in full: https://www.justice.gov/storage/US-v-Trump-Nauta-De-Oliveira-23-80101.pdf I'm assuming this is directed at me. Is there anything specific I should be looking for? In looking at the charges, many are related to the coverup/obstruction which I've said is why Biden and Trump are not the same thing in regards to this issue, but willful retention is something both are guilty of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 14 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Absolutely true, but again, you guys are so full of hate on Trump you refuse to criticize any enemy of his. Trump has given me no reasons to like him in over 40 years. I will never say anything good about him. I will criticize his enemies including Biden, but I don't think Biden comes anywhere close to his level on committing crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 14 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: A much greater mind and someone who investigated Biden doesn't agree. He's another right-wing wacko too; "Special counsel Robert Hur concluded in his report that the evidence investigators uncovered falls short of "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials." so...attack the source now. https://www.npr.org/2024/02/09/1230333392/biden-classified-documents-highlights You mean the source that your side attacked immediately upon the release of the report? For this type of stuff which you obviously didn't get to in the article you linked "Mr. Biden's decision to read notes nearly verbatim to [ghostwriter Mark] Zwonitzer that Mr. Biden had just identified as potentially classified cannot be justified. But the evidence does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended to share classified information. Mr. Biden told Zwonitzer he was 'not sure' the notebook passage he read was classified. That is enough to create reasonable doubt about whether Mr. Biden acted willfully." Hur outlines the ways in which a jury may side with Biden and not ultimately convict him for the missteps that the special counsel found.The report says that to a jury, Biden would likely "present himself ... as he did during his interview with our office, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." Hey Mr Ghost Writer, I think these are classified, let me read them to you verbatim. Once caught, 'well, I wasn't sure they were classified'. Laughable, no way would you guys defend a republican that did the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Trump has given me no reasons to like him in over 40 years. I will never say anything good about him. I will criticize his enemies including Biden, but I don't think Biden comes anywhere close to his level on committing crimes. Do other people have to get to his level on crimes in order to be charged with them then? If that's the new standard, then I'll stop complaining about Biden because he hasn't risen to that standard, but what he did, would have landed me in a ton of trouble as a low level employee government contractor in my previous job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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