The Idiocracy of Donald J. Trump

[1984Echoes]

13 hours ago, chasfh said:

The movement will continue beyond Trump, but Trump will always be the Jesus of it.

This is what I was trying to say.

However.. he ain't Jesus.

He's closer to Ben's depiction of him as the Fuhrer; however I wouldn't go that far either. I would say the closest description would be Mussolini. 

Someone eminently stupid. Full of so much hot air he could fly to China if he were a balloon. And when he got beaten to death... even if Italian fascism didn't die off completely afterwards... without the head of the snake it evaporated into inconsequential.

I think it will take longer for American Fascists to follow that path into nothingness...

But once the head of the snake is chopped off... it will follow exactly the path of inconsequential into nothingness. I firmly believe that.

[Motor City Sonics]

37 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

This is what I was trying to say.

However.. he ain't Jesus.

He's closer to Ben's depiction of him as the Fuhrer; however I wouldn't go that far either. I would say the closest description would be Mussolini. 

Someone eminently stupid. Full of so much hot air he could fly to China if he were a balloon. And when he got beaten to death... even if Italian fascism didn't die off completely afterwards... without the head of the snake it evaporated into inconsequential.

I think it will take longer for American Fascists to follow that path into nothingness...

But once the head of the snake is chopped off... it will follow exactly the path of inconsequential into nothingness. I firmly believe that.

Your last line.   A lot of violence will come first.    My biggest fear is someone comes along that plays to them, but has more intelligence and self-control and would be able to grab some back from the center.  

[pfife]

In the E Jean Carroll trial, Trump basically didn't mount a defense.    He just took the L.    

 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Your last line.   A lot of violence will come first.    My biggest fear is someone comes along that plays to them, but has more intelligence and self-control and would be able to grab some back from the center.  

Trump's anti-intellectualism and lack of self control is an essential part of the show.  Take away that and a good chunk of his base will get dis-interested which may offset gains from the moderates.  

[CMRivdogs]

Like a boss, mob boss that is

 

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Your last line.   A lot of violence will come first.    My biggest fear is someone comes along that plays to them, but has more intelligence and self-control and would be able to grab some back from the center.  

this is why it's so important to prevent Trump from getting back into office and institutionalizing the stuff he was too dumb to the first time. Maduro never could have stayed in power if Chavez had not been popular enough to create the systmem where his successor would not have to be popular.

Edited August 6, 2023 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

This is what I was trying to say.

However.. he ain't Jesus.

Yes, of course. Trump is like Hitler and Mussolini and Castro and Kim and all the rest of them. He is a dictator-in-training. Of course you know I understand that.

I am not comparing Trump the person to Jesus the god. That’s obviously not what I’m trying to put across. He’s not holy like Jesus, and he’s certainly not my Jesus. Everybody here knows I’m not saying that.

But Trump is the Jesus of the movement to the red hats. They truly, honestly believe he is their savior. That’s why I said what I said, as a turn of phrase, not as an objective personal comparison. It’s a metaphor. You get the idea.

And just like Christianity did not die when Jesus died, Trumpism will not die when Trump dies. He didn’t create the movement—he just tapped into what was already there, and rebranded it under his name.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, pfife said:

In the E Jean Carroll trial, Trump basically didn't mount a defense.    He just took the L.    

 

If even Trump’s lawyer acknowledge that he violated the Constitution, and thus his sworn oath, how does that not disqualify him from even running for office again?

[pfife]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Like a boss, mob boss that is

 

This is really quite an interview.  I just heard it on the podcast version of the show.  

[gehringer_2]

"He asked him in an aspirational way,”

LOL - As usual, there is nothing new under the Sun. They've been using this cover story all the way back to Henry II in 1170 and his feigned surprise when some one took him up on his

          "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"

'aspiration' and murdered Thomas Beckett.

Edited August 6, 2023 by gehringer_2

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

... But Trump is the Jesus of the movement to the red hats. They truly, honestly believe he is their savior. That’s why I said what I said, as a turn of phrase, not as an objective personal comparison. It’s a metaphor. You get the idea.

And just like Christianity did not die when Jesus died, Trumpism will not die when Trump dies. He didn’t create the movement—he just tapped into what was already there, and rebranded it under his name.

No, I took it exactly as metaphor.

But I still take difference with using Jesus as metaphor for Trump. And yes... I DO understand that the red hats look at Trump as some kind of savior. But no different than using Gandhi as metaphor... using either Jesus or Gandhi as metaphor doesn't work...  They spread messages of living with other people who are different. Not using violence to protest injustice. Etc. etc.

Trump is using Mussolini as his guideline: Violence is acceptable to install a fascist dictatorship. That benefits SOLELY himself. The exact OPPOSITE of Jesus in fact.

And I do NOT agree that Trumpism will continue without Orange Jesus. It will die, however slowly that death will be. When Hitler died, did Nazism continue? (Or more appropriately, did Nazism continue at the level of German Nazism? Because yes... I do understand neo-Nazism is still alive and well... followed only by a few grotesque adherents...). Did the death camps continue? 

Your likening of Trumpism to Christianity is grotesque. And I'm not a Christian.

Trumpism is not a religion. It is not enlightening. It is disgusting and hateful. Grotesque. Indigestible. And you propose that it will sustain, in the US? Or grow worldwide, is that what you are proposing?

No.

I don't believe so. I'm not saying it will die out to zero... Bigotry never dies. But it will diminish. And demographics are already swamping out the white trash bigots in this country, which is why they are lashing out in one last gasp by turning to Trump's fascism. But it is... a weak and abhorrent and Neanderthal gasp that chases people away; it does NOT attract more people to its cause. But LESS.

You are wrong.

[chasfh]

25 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

You are wrong.

Says the guy who took offense that I used the Jesus metaphor for Trump, and then turned around and called him Orange Jesus! 😉 😅

Anyhow, neither of us can be right or wrong about this yet, because it hasn’t happened yet.

Edited August 6, 2023 by chasfh

[1984Echoes]

Correctamundo.

[CMRivdogs]

He's totally lost it...

 

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

He's totally lost it...

 

If only we were anti-woke like Sweden …

[RatkoVarda]

Trump says he is not interfering with a witness in his case, and instead clarifies he is interfering with a witness in his case.

 

[chasfh]

17 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Correctamundo.

FYI ...

[RatkoVarda]

I don't think voiding his pre-trail release is the first step (she can try a gag order) but obviously the only way he will ever stop is if she takes him into custody. That's where this is heading.

 

[chasfh]

35 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

I don't think voiding his pre-trail release is the first step (she can try a gag order) but obviously the only way he will ever stop is if she takes him into custody. That's where this is heading.

 

And that's what they want, because it's the next step on his Hitler track.

[chasfh]

Cause for worry or not?

1 big thing: How Trump could walk

Photo Illustration: Natalie Peeples/Axios. Photo: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

Top Trump officials privately concede some of the charges against him are damning, dangerous and provable. Why it matters: If Trump is likely to lose in court in even one of his three — probably soon to be four — criminal prosecutions, he may turn to unprecedented, extraordinary measures for a way out, Axios' Zach Basu writes. ⚡ What's happening: Trump appears to be working on three escape hatches to keep himself out of prison. Delay trials until after the 2024 election, hoping he'll be president again and able to pardon himself. Count on friendly judges to steer things in his favor. Frame every defeat as political vendetta — and trust the Supreme Court will overturn any guilty verdicts. Zoom in: Delays are the first order of business for Trump's legal team. 🌴 In Miami, where Trump's classified documents trial is set for May, the former president's legal team is preparing to unleash a flurry of motions and challenges to slow-walk South Florida's "rocket docket." 🏛️ In Washington, Trump's lawyers have vowed to "re-litigate every single issue in the 2020 election" in a bid to prolong the discovery process and push the trial until after the 2024 election. 🏙️ In New York, where Trump is scheduled to go on trial in March, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg is relying on an untested legal theory by charging state felonies related to federal campaign finance violations. There's a chance that a New York judge would toss the charges. 🥊 Reality check: Everything will need to go right for Trump to avoid a conviction in three — possibly four — courthouses in the next 15 months. Special counsel Jack Smith is determined to secure a speedy trial in both of his federal cases. The defenses Trump's lawyers have floated so far have been met with serious skepticism from legal experts. Read on.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

FYI ...

Still doesn't make him Jesus.

Not even Orange Jesus as that's just a (you know this already) derogatory moniker.

It makes him much closer to...

ummm....

What's his name?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

[1984Echoes]

52 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

I don't think voiding his pre-trail release is the first step (she can try a gag order) but obviously the only way he will ever stop is if she takes him into custody. That's where this is heading.

 

 

DO IT!!!

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Still doesn't make him Jesus.

Not even Orange Jesus as that's just a (you know this already) derogatory moniker.

It makes him much closer to...

ummm....

What's his name?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

The point was never that Trump is actually Jesus.

The point is that his disciples see him as Jesus-like. It is in that sense that he is the movement's Jesus, which is what this article confirms, not that he is objectively Jesus. And neither you nor I could ever convince them otherwise.

[1984Echoes]

But I'm making a different point.

Because I agree with you that they've "anointed" him as their "Jesus". 

But that doesn't make him "Jesus". Anointing Jim Jones as anyone's savior doesn't make him Jesus. Hitler taking power and turning into the "savior" of Germany (99% of the population (just a WAG) believed he had "saved" Germany, before he nose-dived, for specific reasons) still doesn't make him the "Jesus" of Germany. Putin is not the Jesus of Russia.

Trumpism is not Christianity.

I am not arguing with you that MAGA has "anointed" him, they have.

I am arguing that just because someone is "anointed" in a cult, in any cult, does not "make" them Jesus. It's an inappropriate comparable based not on his anointment, but on the differences between the Cult of Trumpism, versus Christianity. They are not equal and therefore he can NOT be Jesus. Jonesism, Putinism, Hitlerism... none of these guys are modern day Jesus's... Although they certainly played to popular sentiment searching for a "savior".

But, not the same thing.

That's why I say when Trump dies, Trumpism will wither. It's a Cult of his personality, like Jones/ Putin/ Stalin/ Mussolini, etc... When the Cult Leader of a violent movement dies, the movement dies, even if it's not entirely 100%. It's not attractive to normal people. How can it grow?

Christianity grew... because of its message, not its original leader.

Therein lies the difference that I am trying to point out.

Trump cannot be "Jesus"... even if he has been "anointed" by his sycophantic cult adulationists, because Trumpism is not a religious message, but, rather, a fascist message of violence and hatred. Like Mussolini (not Jesus), like Hitler (not Jesus), like Stalin (not Jesus), like Putin (not Jesus), etc.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

But I'm making a different point.

Because I agree with you that they've "anointed" him as their "Jesus".

And that's all I meant by it, full stop. All the rest of it is unrelated.

Edited August 7, 2023 by chasfh