Tiger337 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Oh - I know that, but my point is that that isn't how it usually works with management. We know their team's performance wasn't Madden or Girardi's fault either, but in the real world that not how the cookie usually gets crumbled. It may be because McClendon was a former manager and thus more recognizable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 2 hours ago, tiger2022 said: I am not saying Coolbaugh is a great coach, but he doesn't have much to work with. A chef can only do so much with spoiled meat and rotten veggies. disagree. Everybody doing terrible all the same time is not all on the batters. He can’t even get the batters to listen to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: disagree. Everybody doing terrible all the same time is not all on the batters. He can’t even get the batters to listen to him. What happened last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerb Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, chasfh said: disagree. Everybody doing terrible all the same time is not all on the batters. He can’t even get the batters to listen to him. Half of these guys are vets who have been around a while. What is a hitting coach really going to tell Schoop or Baez or Grossman for example to get them to really change what they're doing short of holding them at gunpoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Nerb said: Half of these guys are vets who have been around a while. What is a hitting coach really going to tell Schoop or Baez or Grossman for example to get them to really change what they're doing short of holding them at gunpoint yes - they are vets and I don't think individual instruction is going to matter much, but that's not all the hitting coach is responsible for. What kind of BP are they doing? Doing any live off the mound? Machine drills? How is the pitching scouting being presented and what kind of recommendations are being made? Are they pushing guys to review old video? Making sure old video is available? They may already be doing all this stuff but the point is that there is stuff a pitching coach is responsible for that is going to help even vets. Edited June 11, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerb Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: yes - they are vets and I don't think individual instruction is going to matter much, but that's not all the hitting coach is responsible for. What kind of BP are they doing? Doing any live off the mound? Machine drills? How is the pitching scouting being presented and what kind of recommendations are being made? Are they pushing guys to review old video? Making sure old video is available? They may already be doing all this stuff but the point is that there is stuff a pitching coach is responsible for that is going to help even vets. fair enough, but the stuff you are mentioning wouldn't be the sole responsibility of the hitting coach. if things like that are getting missed we should absolutely can the whole staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 You would think Baez should try crowding plate like right on it and if you think you might get hit by the pitch swing. 😊 seriously it seems he doesn’t know where the plate is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I don't really know how much a hitting coach can help veteran players. A lot of the same players did fine with him there last year and Baez has been uncoachable his entire career. A lot of our veteran hitters are hitting way below their career norms. What changed between last year and this year? Is it all due to not having juiced balls? Is Coolbaugh doing anything different than he did last year? Doesn't someone have to be held accountable for the lack of offense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 There are a lot of star/very good players that are having poor offensive years relative to their historical performance, but it seems more prevalent and pronounced on our team. It’s baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrob2004 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Nerb said: Half of these guys are vets who have been around a while. What is a hitting coach really going to tell Schoop or Baez or Grossman for example to get them to really change what they're doing short of holding them at gunpoint Why even have a hitting coach then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: There are a lot of star/very good players that are having poor offensive years relative to their historical performance, but it seems more prevalent and pronounced on our team. It’s baffling. well you hope that in a least few cases the coach can see something wrong in the hitters approach, some bad physical habit they've developed that he can help the player break to get back to where he was. Of course that is not always the reason why a player slumps, but you'd think with half a dozen guys slumping the odds are your HC would have been able to have been some help to one of them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Nerb said: Half of these guys are vets who have been around a while. What is a hitting coach really going to tell Schoop or Baez or Grossman for example to get them to really change what they're doing short of holding them at gunpoint Not saying this is you, but a lot of fans ask what good a hitting coach is, since major league position players already know how to hit, duh, so what can a hitting coach teach them? There may be little new that a major league hitting coach can teach a major league hitter, but the coach should be able to get to know his players well enough to see when a guy is out of sync, and should be able to suggest tweaks to fix whatever the problem may be. As for this particular situation, I don’t know whether Scott Coolbaugh doesn’t know enough about Javy to fix his issue, or whether Javy is resistant to whatever input Coolbaugh is offering up to him, but either way, it doesn’t reflect well on Scott Coolbaugh. Add to this that there are multiple qualified batters on this team who are having terrible years, and that almost none of them have been doing well all season, or in the last month, or in the last two weeks, or during just about any period this season, and, coupled with the fact that the Tigers are having a historically terrible year scoring runs, it looks to me like Scott Coolbaugh is going to have to stand tall before the Man to answer for it. But wait—wasn’t Scott Coolbaugh the Tigers’ hitting coach last year? Sure he was. So why wasn’t I calling for his head last season? Because we were not this terrible last season. We were merely a slightly-below-average-hitting team. It is this season our hitting has completely collapsed. Just because the Tigers weren’t this bad hitting last year doesn’t mean Coolbaugh bears no responsibility for the hitting collapse of this season. We have no proof positive that this team’s relationship with Scott Coolbaugh is the same or different, whether players are listening to him more or less this season than last, whether there were broad coaching changes he implemented leading to the scoring outage or whether players are getting worse on their own and ignoring his input. What we see are the results, and the results show that the 2022 Tigers are in the 1st percentile in history for run-scoring through 57 games. Shouldn’t that be considered unacceptable? Unless there is dramatic improvement in run-scoring starting today, Scott Coolbaugh will be fired really soon, and I would agree with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) Part of this is roster composition—we have multiple guys who are 125-150 K hitters over the course of a full season (Grossman, Baez, Meadows, Candy and Schoop). All are being exploited, along with a rook (Tork) with one on the way, who K’d a ton last year (Greene). If we draft another high potential hitter with a propensity for “swing and miss,” i.e., Parker Meadows and Gage Workman, then we clearly will not have learned anything. Edited June 11, 2022 by Tenacious D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 42 minutes ago, chasfh said: Unless there is dramatic improvement in run-scoring starting today, Scott Coolbaugh will be fired really soon, and I would agree with that. I would be surprised—Hinch doesn’t seem like he would scapegoat someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) Ever think maybe the players just suck? That seems like a pretty good theory to me. Reyes, Torkelson, Hill, Badoo, Clemens, and Haase would find it really difficult to make almost any other MLB roster. Baez is uncoachable, the Castros are utility players (they are hitting at least decently). Grossman was never a great hitter but isn't hitting for average since he tries to hit home runs now. Barnhardt was never some stud hitter anyway. What hitting coach is going to have these guys up there even in the .240s? I'm not defending Coolbaugh because I have no idea what he even does with the players, but I just don't think a lot of these guys would be on the roster of most MLB teams. Edited June 11, 2022 by tiger2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Just now, Tenacious D said: I would be surprised—Hinch doesn’t seem like he would scapegoat someone. Well, if they find this level of run-scoring acceptable, then I guess Hinch and/or Al will keep Coolbaugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, chasfh said: Well, if they find this level of run-scoring acceptable, then I guess Hinch and/or Al will keep Coolbaugh. I think that would be scapegoating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think that would be scapegoating. Scapegoating in baseball? Quel horreur! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: Scapegoating in baseball? Quel horreur! It's good for marketing. It shows the fans that they care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Christian Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Baez with a shitty throw to first. Time to give him a seat😠 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 I've likely been the most outspoken of Baez' critics this season. Kudos to Javy for today's performance at the plate. The hit was nice,...but I'm even more encourage by the 3 walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackPine Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Useful Idiot said: I've likely been the most outspoken of Baez' critics this season. Kudos to Javy for today's performance at the plate. The hit was nice,...but I'm even more encourage by the 3 walks. He swung at 5 pitches. All but one was in the zone and the one that wasnt was close. He layed off some close pitches for balls. Especially in his last at bat. Sounds like a disciplined hitter. Gausman tried like hell to get him to chase offspeed down and away. Both the splitter and the slider. Totally different guy than we've seen all year. Edited June 12, 2022 by JackPine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 25 minutes ago, JackPine said: He swung at 5 pitches. All but one was in the zone and the one that wasnt was close. He layed off some close pitches for balls. Especially in his last at bat. Sounds like a disciplined hitter. Gausman tried like hell to get him to chase offspeed down and away. Both the splitter and the slider. Totally different guy than we've seen all year. still, before we get too excited, Gausman looked more more up and down than an inside outside yesterday. If Javy can stay home against the guys throwing the bigger horizontal break then he'll be home free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: still, before we get too excited, Gausman looked more more up and down than an inside outside yesterday. If Javy can stay home against the guys throwing the bigger horizontal break then he'll be home free. Yeah, that's the thing that is giving me pause... the Tigers approach was good yesterday, but Gausman's splitter wasn't very sharp as well. Having said that, Javy will swing at literally everything if left to his own devices. So it's progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackPine Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 No hits or walks but no K's today and continued to swing at strikes. My post yesterday was way too optimistic but I'll take these signs of discipline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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