General Tiger Discussion

[casimir]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Oh, also... let me break that down just a bit more:

Baddoo 400 PA's (250 LF, 150 CF)

Grossman 550 PA's (300 LF, 150 DH, 100 RF)

Hill, 350 PA's, all CF.

Greene 600 PA's (500 RF, 50 CF, 50 DH)

Call up Reyes or Cameron and you can sprinkle a few more PA's in there...

Barring a free agent or trade acquisition, I think this makes sense.  I question the DH PAs, might be a bit high.  For example, Grossman is at 34 PAs this season.  But I suppose that’s a function of the OF being shallow this season.  Mazara (remember him?) didn’t work out.  Jones and Reyes found themselves DFAed.  Cabrera’s push for 500 HRs and 3,000 Hs.  Heck, they ran CastroW and Haase out to the OF.

Hmmmmm…. Haase getting some LF reps in spring training.  Y’all remember that?  It kind of worked out.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said:

He's a  number 4 outfielder on a team Where Robbie Grossman has the 4th highest salary on the team and will be due for a new contract at the end of next season.

  Sorry, but I remain to be convinced that the moneybags are willing to start spending.  Reyes is a perfect fit for who I think this team is.  

I expect them to spend more this winter.  I don't know how much more, but I am confident they will try to put together a playoff team.  

[Archie]

I think we need to find out if Baddoo is a one season wonder or he's the real deal.  I feel he could be a very good player.  Since this was his first year in the MLB or anything higher than A ball he has performed better than anyone could hope.  He has a lot to improve on and I think he's capable of doing it both at the plate and in the field.

The obvious for Hill is to stay healthy.  I think he has potential to be an outstanding fielder but still questionable at the plate.  I would like to see more of him before any decisions are made so I hope he makes the team out of ST.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

You and I likely are not going to find common ground on Reyes, and I'm fine with that.

I guess I should point at his 2019 results coupled with what he's done in the second half of 2021, and insist what happend in between was the outlier impacted by the pandemic (as  seems to be a convenient way to explain away   failure for so many situations these days?)  But I won't. 

I'll simply insist that I believe the job is his to lose, and hope he makes the most of the opportunity.

I like a player who hit's 'em were they ain't!  

I’m not sure why cherry picking the best numbers as opposed to the whole of the resume is a better gauge, but do what you wish.

I will say, to the favor of Reyes, he has been more durable than Hill.  Hill’s penchant for missing time, and questionable bat as @gehringer_2 alluded to, are definitely considerations.

I don’t mind bringing Reyes back for spring training.  But what are the 40 man roster moves to be made?  Who is at the brink of rule 5 status?  Heck, will there be a rule 5 in the new CBA (haven’t heard it’s going away, but who knows)?

[Archie]

4 minutes ago, casimir said:

Barring a free agent or trade acquisition, I think this makes sense.  I question the DH PAs, might be a bit high.  For example, Grossman is at 34 PAs this season.  But I suppose that’s a function of the OF being shallow this season.  Mazara (remember him?) didn’t work out.  Jones and Reyes found themselves DFAed.  Cabrera’s push for 500 HRs and 3,000 Hs.  Heck, they ran CastroW and Haase out to the OF.

Hmmmmm…. Haase getting some LF reps in spring training.  Y’all remember that?  It kind of worked out.

For me Jones was the biggest disappointment this year.  He was never great at the plate but he showed signs of improvement until this year.  I don't think I've ever seen a MLB player look so bad and so lost at the plate.  I think there's probably more to what's going on with Jones than we know but Hinch and Tigers gave up quickly and didn't even try to improve him at Toledo before he was DFA.  He played some at Toledo but has fell out of regular play there a few weeks ago.  I doubt he would be offered a chance again in Detroit so he could end up out of baseball or with another team if he's lucky.

[sabretooth]

41 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I expect them to spend more this winter.  I don't know how much more, but I am confident they will try to put together a playoff team.  

It's certainly the right time to do it.  If they are looking at Reyes as a regular player, I would be extremely disappointed.

[SoCalTiger]

I think we are set in the outfield assuming Green makes the team early next year. He will play centerfield unless Hill is in the game and that is very questionable because of his hitting and health. He really hasn't proven anything beyond his defense. Badoo should play left given his poor arm and that leaves Grossman in Right and playing every day.

 Reyes second half will parley him into the spring training competition or an add on for a trade if Al can sell his second half stats. Cameron is AAAA. 

I also think Chris Taylor could be an interesting sign for shortstop initially and everywhere if Kreidler or someone else emerges. But the Dodgers value him highly and probably will pay to keep him which is unfortunate.

[sabretooth]

Grossman was our one good full-time OF this year at 2.6 WAR (only a little above average), it was a career year, and he's turning 33.  We'd be lucky to see that again.

Baddoo's splits have been discussed.

The other guys are either part-timers like Reyes or prospects, and Greene seems like the only future plus full-timer, and he'll probably need a year or three to be a full-time plus player.

They desperately need another good FA OFer.

[1984Echoes]

39 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

... They desperately need another good FA OFer.

I believe it is in the Tigers best interest to NOT sign a FA OF'er but, rather, let these kids grow into whatever they might turn into, before making the decision to spend extra money on that. I just don't seeing jumping the gun in this area. It makes no sense. "Desperately"? What a joke.

Our short-term need is not in the OF, it's at Catcher and SS.

And a starting pitcher, and a couple AAAA starters for backup, and at least one high-end reliever.

Edited October 1, 2021 by 1984Echoes

[Tiger337]

53 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

It's certainly the right time to do it.  If they are looking at Reyes as a regular player, I would be extremely disappointed.

I would argue that it's always the  right time from a fan's perspective.  

[mtutiger]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

Barring a free agent or trade acquisition, I think this makes sense.  I question the DH PAs, might be a bit high.  For example, Grossman is at 34 PAs this season.  But I suppose that’s a function of the OF being shallow this season.  Mazara (remember him?) didn’t work out.  Jones and Reyes found themselves DFAed.  Cabrera’s push for 500 HRs and 3,000 Hs.  Heck, they ran CastroW and Haase out to the OF.

Hmmmmm…. Haase getting some LF reps in spring training.  Y’all remember that?  It kind of worked out.

I dont recall Victor Reyes being DFA'd. But I'd have to go back and look at the transactions to be sure.

[Tiger337]

I was just looking at Victor Reyes' similarity scores on B-Ref.  The second most similar player is Jim Thorpe!

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I dont recall Victor Reyes being DFA'd. But I'd have to go back and look at the transactions to be sure.

Victor started the season with 2 options left, there would not have been any reason to DFA him, they just used one of his options.

 

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2021/3/11/22312652/2021-detroit-tigers-roster-payroll-service-time-and-options

https://www.milb.com/player/victor-reyes-622682

Edited October 1, 2021 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

21 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Victor started the season with 2 options left, there would not have been any reason to DFA him, they just used one of his options.

 

https://www.blessyouboys.com/2021/3/11/22312652/2021-detroit-tigers-roster-payroll-service-time-and-options

https://www.milb.com/player/victor-reyes-622682

That makes more sense. I just remembered him being optioned.

Again, I think he's been somewhat of a trendy darling pick of some national baseball media, which seems misplaced. But having said that, I doubt he is removed from the 40 and believe he will be competing for a roster spot next year,  as a bench guy.

Edited October 1, 2021 by mtutiger

[Useful Idiot]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

 but I am confident they will try to put together a playoff team.  

I hope you are right, really I do.  They've already backtracked their pledge to spend, qualifying that it will be a gradual process, spread out over multiple years. Personally I don't expect them to get serious until they are out from under Cabrera's contract. Which is essentially a $30M handicap.

[Useful Idiot]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

I’m not sure why cherry picking the best numbers as opposed to the whole of the resume is a better gauge, but do what you wish.

 

I was just trying to fit in with everyone else  by using the numbers that tell the story I wanted to tell 😕

 

You yourself pegged his first year as excusable, so I was just  employing the covid "scapegoat", as many others have for whatever serves their purpose.

You don't really recall  earlier in the year as this season was just  starting,.. all the excuses that media people were dreaming up describing how the abbreviated season last year was sure to have a negative impact on player performance this year?  Seems like just about every player having a slow start was given some version of that benefit-of-the-doubt type logic.

[Useful Idiot]

Since these draconian time limits will not allow me to edit my previous post, I'll just add "Never allow a good crisis go to waste"...you know the drill

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Useful Idiot said:

I hope you are right, really I do.  They've already backtracked their pledge to spend, qualifying that it will be a gradual process, spread out over multiple years. Personally I don't expect them to get serious until they are out from under Cabrera's contract. Which is essentially a $30M handicap.

One concern is if they go after mid-range guys and get burned.  Without doing an analysis, those seem to be the guys that kill teams.  I'd rather they go big on one guy and then look for some bargains.  

[casimir]

10 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I dont recall Victor Reyes being DFA'd. But I'd have to go back and look at the transactions to be sure.

Hmmm.....  You could be right, I may be crazy.  I know Jones was, and I was sure that Reyes was as well.  Maybe I am confusing Mazara's DFA in there onto Reyes?

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

I was just trying to fit in with everyone else  by using the numbers that tell the story I wanted to tell 😕

 

You yourself pegged his first year as excusable, so I was just  employing the covid "scapegoat", as many others have for whatever serves their purpose.

You don't really recall  earlier in the year as this season was just  starting,.. all the excuses that media people were dreaming up describing how the abbreviated season last year was sure to have a negative impact on player performance this year?  Seems like just about every player having a slow start was given some version of that benefit-of-the-doubt type logic.

I just think there is a pretty good difference between a rule 5 season and 4th year in the bigs with a hollow AVG heavily fueled by BABIP combined with 0 power and a horrid BB/SO.

Look, I'll give him credit, every time he gets a hit or draws a walk he gets on base and that's a good thing.  But it doesn't happen enough, he doesn't hit for power, and a lot of his numbers say he's not much more than a bench option that should earn his keep in spring training.  Unless he falls into a big magic bin of pixie dust, he is the nothing more than the AAAA player that he has shown to be.

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

Since these draconian time limits will not allow me to edit my previous post, I'll just add "Never allow a good crisis go to waste"...you know the drill

My dad always said "if you do it right the first time, you don't have to do it again".

Man, if I had a nickel for every time I fouled something up and then muttered that to myself.....🙃

Edited October 1, 2021 by casimir

[Archie]

I don't see the Tigers signing a new OF in FA.  I think they have enough prospective OFers to come up with four solid guys even if they are moved around from Toledo throughout the season.  They should be looking for a SS, pitching help and maybe even a catcher in FA.

[gehringer_2]

54 minutes ago, casimir said:

My dad always said "if you do it right the first time, you don't have to do it again".

Man, if I had a nickel for every time I fouled something up and then muttered that to myself.....🙃

LOL - I must have known your father. When I was in college I worked in the bookstore and one of the owners kept a sign on his desk that said, "Why is there *never* time to do the job right in the first place, but *always* time to do it over?"

[chasfh]

I think of Victor Reyes as a sort of canary in the coalmine: if he’s on your team, your team is probably not very good, and the more you have to rely on him, the worse your team probably is.

[Dan Gilmore]

I think Reyes is fine as a 5th OF on a good team, less so as the fourth OF. As a PR, infrequent day off for the regular replacement, flexibility for double switches on NL parks, you could do worse. It all comes down to the second part of your comment, Chas: how much does he play. I think 175 PAs or less makes sense. But would he suffer from not staying sharp sitting on the bench most of the time.