chasfh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 2/1/2022 at 3:03 PM, Tiger337 said: Did ESPN do their top 50 yet? Jeter will probably be top 5. If Jeter is not listed yet, then he’s either too high or too low. He ranks 94th in lifetime WAR and tied for 79th in JAWS, so he qualifies for the Top 50 in neither career nor peak. The higher they list him, the more credibility ESPN leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 34 minutes ago, chasfh said: If Jeter is not listed yet, then he’s either too high or too low. He ranks 94th in lifetime WAR and tied for 79th in JAWS, so he qualifies for the Top 50 in neither career nor peak. The higher they list him, the more credibility ESPN leaks. He was #28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 ESPN leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: He was #28. This tells you everything you need to know about ESPN, in placing Jeter some sixty slots above his true level: "Overrated or not, you can't deny the five World Series rings." You don't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 You know who else had five rings for the Yankees? Joe Collins. Apparently you can deny five World Series rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 He has calm eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The funny thing is I liked Jeter early in his career. He reminded me of Alan Trammell. Then they started building him up to be a baseball god and it turned me off. Then he began to buy into the hype, stayed at shortstop for way too long and became one of the worst defensive shortstops ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 13 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Unless Shep pulls a Thom Brennamen or something I afraid we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future. I did really like Petry in the color role so I'm glad he is still part of the rotation. I really enjoyed Petry on the radio side with Dan as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: The funny thing is I liked Jeter early in his career. He reminded me of Alan Trammell. Then they started building him up to be a baseball god and it turned me off. Then he began to buy into the hype, stayed at shortstop for way too long and became one of the worst defensive shortstops ever. OTOH, he played the last 5 yrs of his career in that joke of a new stadium where defense at SS (or pretty much anywhere else) hardly mattered, so at least it was a good fit... Edited February 3, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 They also overrated Pete Rose (#34) by at least twenty spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, 1776 said: I really enjoyed Petry on the radio side with Dan as well. Petry would be fine if he would just clean up his verbal tics, which really isn't that hard to do if he would just work at it a little. More than once the constant stream of 'ya' know?'s has driven me to the alternate audio feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 22 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: The funny thing is I liked Jeter early in his career. He reminded me of Alan Trammell. Then they started building him up to be a baseball god and it turned me off. Then he began to buy into the hype, stayed at shortstop for way too long and became one of the worst defensive shortstops ever. The arrogance of insisting on playing shortstop when ARod was acquired turned me way way way off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: The arrogance of insisting on playing shortstop when ARod was acquired turned me way way way off. it was a 'window on his soul' moment, but the truth is ARod probably couldn't/shouldn't have stayed at SS very long either.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Looking at the numbers again, it is amazing how consistently bad Jeter was defensivly even early in his career. That doesn't mean he was a bad fielder. It just means that he was worse than the best fielders in the game. Perhaps, he played out of position his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Looking at the numbers again, it is amazing how consistently bad Jeter was defensivly even early in his career. That doesn't mean he was a bad fielder. It just means that he was worse than the best fielders in the game. Perhaps, he played out of position his entire career. It was a perfect storm for Jeter though because it's not like the Yankees had a 3b in waiting that would have been valuable if Jeter and Arod had played 2B and SS, quite the contrary - for a big part of the time they had an all-star 2B in Cano. So better overall to have Cano at 2B than Jeter there and some Joe Doakes at 3rd. Would ARod have maintained his D at SS? Who knows - but seems unlikely he would have for long given his mass. Add in that both Yankee ballparks were HR parks, and as a team, in the end I don't think leaving Jeter at SS ended up costing the Yankees much overall most years. Doesn't mean he wasn't a jerk over it or that he deserves to be considered a great fielding SS, just that he was in a good place for who he was. Edited February 3, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 33 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Looking at the numbers again, it is amazing how consistently bad Jeter was defensivly even early in his career. That doesn't mean he was a bad fielder. It just means that he was worse than the best fielders in the game. Perhaps, he played out of position his entire career. He's the grown up version of the coach's kid who has to P or play SS. That's just the way it has to be. He played SS because that was what the Branding of Jeter required. If he's a 1B then he's just Carlos Guillen who can stay healthy. Good but nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 the mainstream media overrates jeter, the saber community underrates him. he'a too high on that espn list, but he still belongs on the list. he had a great career, even if he should have been "younted" off shortstop when arod got there. arod should be higher on that list. bonds too. pedro is too high (even though he's better than koufax), harper doesnt belong on it at all. ortiz is too high. gerhringer too low. cobb is just about right. its funny that ruth at #1 is controversial now, but it is what it is. swap him with mays if youre concerned about defense and our supposed ability to track things like "runs saved" now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, buddha said: the mainstream media overrates jeter, the saber community underrates him. he'a too high on that espn list, but he still belongs on the list. he had a great career, even if he should have been "younted" off shortstop when arod got there. arod should be higher on that list. bonds too. pedro is too high (even though he's better than koufax), harper doesnt belong on it at all. ortiz is too high. gerhringer too low. cobb is just about right. its funny that ruth at #1 is controversial now, but it is what it is. swap him with mays if youre concerned about defense and our supposed ability to track things like "runs saved" now. Jeter belongs near the end of the list. Ripken should have been ahead of him. I think the saber community is more right about Jeter than the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Jeter belongs near the end of the list. Ripken should have been ahead of him. I think the saber community is more right about Jeter than the media. you do???? no way! i think the opposite. also not a surprise. lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I really can't argue with their top 10 too much. I think Bonds should be higher and Id put Williams ahead of Aaron but both of those are minor quibbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I really can't argue with their top 10 too much. I think Bonds should be higher and Id put Williams ahead of Aaron but both of those are minor quibbles. i'd probably put cobb ahead of aaron too. but i'd put bonds ahead of both of them. williams is interesting because he missed significant time to two wars. if he hadnt, he might be #1 on the list. but ruth (and robinson) are both highly rated not only because they were great players, but also because they transcended the game. they were more than just baseball players. in that way both are a bit overrated, especially robinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 24 minutes ago, buddha said: you do???? no way! i think the opposite. also not a surprise. lol I don't always agree with the saber community. I pride myself in being half saber and half old man who hates the modern game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't always agree with the saber community. I pride myself in being half saber and half old man who hates the modern game. saber guys bug me, so smug. but maybe that's because they wont let me into their cool parties? (actually that's not true. i've been very drunk with many of them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Is there any wonder why he declined so much in his "30s"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Even though Miggy had a babyface and looked more his age that was always a concern of mine with him as well but in his case I think it may have only been a year or two tops where as Albert looks like it could easily be 5 or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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