General Tiger Discussion

[Biff Mayhem]

15 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't always agree with the saber community.  I pride myself in being half saber and half old man who hates the modern game.  

Which is why I so thoroughly enjoyed your book.

[chasfh]

22 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Looking at the numbers again, it is amazing how consistently bad Jeter was defensivly even early in his career.  That doesn't mean he was a bad fielder.  It just means that he was worse than the best fielders in the game.  Perhaps, he played out of position his entire career.  

It can be easy to forget now how much greater acceptance there is of the more advanced fielding stats now, but at the time Jeter started, those were just a twinkle in Bill James’s eye, so baseball people were leaning almost exclusively on traditional fielding stats.

In his early years, Jeter was frequently among the league leaders in fielding percentage, putouts, and of course, games played. So back then a lot of baseball people looked at those stats, as well as his acrobatic highlights (which he had to generate to make up for his poor positioning and lack of jump, which almost no one recognized about him back then), and concluded yeah, Jeter’s a great shortstop.

Tellingly, though, he was almost never in the top ten in assists or double plays turned.

[chasfh]

17 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Is there any wonder why he declined so much in his "30s"?

 

 

We may find out how old Pujols really is when it’s time for him to claim his MLBPA pension.

[Jim Cowan]

I always wanted to congratulate Jeter for admitting that he didn't have enough arm to play third base.

[gehringer_2]

55 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Tellingly, though, he was almost never in the top ten in assists

About the only positive explanation for that would be that a SS was playing behind all RH pitching. I remember having run down some numbers on a SS  a number of years ago whose total chances seemed low but who had faced an inordinate % of LH hitters over the period in question. Seems unlikely in Jeter's case since you assume the Yankees are always looking for LH pitching.

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

About the only positive explanation for that would be that a SS was playing behind all RH pitching. I remember having run down some numbers on a SS  a number of years ago whose total chances seemed low but who had faced an inordinate % of LH hitters over the period in question. Seems unlikely in Jeter's case since you assume the Yankees are always looking for LH pitching.

As it turns out, in the years 1996 through 2000, 59.0% of all hitters Yankee pitchers faced were RHB, versus 56.2% for the AL in total. So early Jeter's Yankees faced a higher percentage of RH hitters than normal. (h/t BR)

	Yankees				AL
	RHB	LHB	% RHB		RHB	LHB	% RHB
1996	3817	2472	60.7%		50197	39537	55.9%
1997	4083	2196	65.0%		51248	36869	58.2%
1998	3502	2598	57.4%		49019	39099	55.6%
1999	3401	2832	54.6%		49145	39383	55.5%
2000	3567	2689	57.0%		49679	39270	55.9%
TOT	18370	12787	59.0%		249288	194158	56.2%

[RandyMarsh]

I remember being in NYC in the summer of 2007, I ended up "befriending" a couple locals(basically we became drinking buddies for the weekend) and I would give them so much shit about Jeter.

I remember being like "Well atleast you got one SS in NY with range but he plays in Queens.(Jose Reyes) They just refused to accept that his defense was overrated. 

[RandyMarsh]

In regards to that list I wonder how high Trout could potentially go? He only just turned 30 so he should have atleast 3 to 4 prime like years left in him.

If in those years he registers his normal 9+ WAR he would pass guys like Williams, Mantle, Musial and Gehrig in career WAR before turning 35. Of course he has been more banged up as of late and you never know when Father Time is going to kick you in the ass but if he keeps on the same career arc I could see him ending up at or near the top 5 when it's all said and done.

[Tigeraholic1]

One of my favorite catchers Froot Loops.

 

[Tiger337]

27 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

One of my favorite catchers Froot Loops.

 

I called a lot of Tettleton homers!  I could tell by the look on his face!  I am sure there were a lot of false positives, but that's not what I remember.  Everyone used to talk about Fielder, but Tettleton was better and even more fun.    

[RandyMarsh]

Tettleton was the first autograph I remember asking for as a kid. I was about 11 or 12 years old and acted like the stereotypical kid too shy to talk to a "celebrity" like that, I remember mumbling like "Mr. Tettleton can I have your autograph?" He of course obliged so he's somebody that always has a special place in my heart. Not just for that but he was my favorite player in that era. 

[Jim Cowan]

Tettleton hit the hardest ball that I ever saw, batting righthanded at the Skydome.  There were 2 loud bangs, the first one was his bat hitting the ball and the second was the ball hitting the back of an empty seat about 5 rows back in the left field seats.  I don't think it ever got more than 25 feet off the ground.  The interval between the 2 bangs was no more than 1001, 1002, 1003.

[Biff Mayhem]

10 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

One of my favorite catchers Froot Loops.

 

Holy cow. That ball is probably still in therapy to this day.

[chasfh]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:41 PM, RandyMarsh said:

In regards to that list I wonder how high Trout could potentially go? He only just turned 30 so he should have atleast 3 to 4 prime like years left in him.

If in those years he registers his normal 9+ WAR he would pass guys like Williams, Mantle, Musial and Gehrig in career WAR before turning 35. Of course he has been more banged up as of late and you never know when Father Time is going to kick you in the ass but if he keeps on the same career arc I could see him ending up at or near the top 5 when it's all said and done.

Trout is arguably the most well-rounded great player of our lifetimes, but even the relatively small amount of time he’s lost is going to cost him slots on the all-time list.

Although someone’s gotta do it, it’s almost impossible to become one of the all-time greats. Absolutely everything has to go right: exceptional tools, performance, versatility, peak, career length, health, luck. Being the performance leader of ring teams would be a tiebreaker. That’s why I think no one may ever supplant Babe Ruth at the top.

[1776]

LOS ANGELES – Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer will not face any criminal charges on sexual assault accusations filed against him in July, the Los Angeles County District Attorney announced on Tuesday.

The right-hander is still being separately investigated by Major League Baseball. Under the joint domestic violence policy agreed upon by MLB and the MLB Players Association, the Commissioner's Office has the ability to suspend a player even if he has not been charged or convicted.

“MLB’s investigation is ongoing, and we will comment further at the appropriate time,” MLB said in a statement.

[oblong]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:43 PM, Tiger337 said:

I called a lot of Tettleton homers!  I could tell by the look on his face!  I am sure there were a lot of false positives, but that's not what I remember.  Everyone used to talk about Fielder, but Tettleton was better and even more fun.    

The only comparable guy I can think of in Detroit since is VMart at his peak time here.  I have the perfect seats for a LH power hitter.  It was appointment hitting. 

 

[John_Brian_K]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:22 AM, Biff Mayhem said:

Holy cow. That ball is probably still in therapy to this day.

Inches away from being a Sheffield special.

Seeing that clip brought back some memories...seeing that stance and the way he just stood there

[buddha]

if only those teams could have found some decent pitching.

[Tiger337]

I remember everybody used to say that team couldn't win because all they did was try to hit home runs and they struck out too much.  it never occurred to them that they had one of the best offenses in baseball and didn't win because their pitching was terrible.  

[gehringer_2]

40 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I remember everybody used to say that team couldn't win because all they did was try to hit home runs and they struck out too much.  it never occurred to them that they had one of the best offenses in baseball and didn't win because their pitching was terrible.  

I guess I'd push back on that a little. I think the idea that a Tiger win by those early 90's team was going to be a slug fest, i.e. that they were going to give up close to as many as they scored (i.e. couldn't pitch), was a pretty common view of those teams. You'd have to not notice that they lead the league in runs in 92 and 93, 2nd in 91 and 3rd in 94 - before the bottom fell out completely.

Edited February 10, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I guess I'd push back on that a little. I think the idea that a Tiger win by those early 90's team was going to be a slug fest, i.e. that they were going to give up close to as many as they scored (i.e. couldn't pitch), was a pretty common view of those teams. You'd have to not notice that they lead the league in runs in 92 and 93, 2nd in 91 and 3rd in 94 - before the bottom fell out completely.

How is that a push back?  They lost because of bad pitching like you said.  If they manufactured runs instead of hit homers, they still would have lost because of bad pitching.  They scored a lot of runs and they would have won a lot of games if they had good pitching.  Now, most teams in baseball try to hit the way the early 90s Tigers hit except it's even more extreme now.  It used be exciting when the Tigers were the only ones doing it. Now, it's boring because everybody is doing it.  There is no variation.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

48 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

How is that a push back?  They lost because of bad pitching like you said.  If they manufactured runs instead of hit homers, they still would have lost because of bad pitching.  They scored a lot of runs and they would have won a lot of games if they had good pitching.  Now, most teams in baseball try to hit the way the early 90s Tigers hit except it's even more extreme now.  It used be exciting when the Tigers were the only ones doing it. Now, it's boring because everybody is doing it.  There is no variation.  

I just mean that my recollection of that period was that as fans we knew pretty well that the offense was good and the pitching was terrible.

Edited February 10, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I just mean that my recollection of that period was that as fans we knew pretty well that the offense was good and the pitching was terrible.

I am sure you knew.  Good fans knew, but I remember a lot of media people saying the Tigers were losing because they struck out too much.  Red Sox fans too!

[Mr.TaterSalad]

RIP Jeremy Giambi. I was sad to see he passed tonight and hope his personal struggles didn't get the better of him.

[chasfh]

On 2/9/2022 at 6:25 PM, Tiger337 said:

I remember everybody used to say that team couldn't win because all they did was try to hit home runs and they struck out too much.  it never occurred to them that they had one of the best offenses in baseball and didn't win because their pitching was terrible.  

The 1992 team was pretty much the platonic ideal: most runs scored, second-most runs yielded, second-to-last place.