chasfh Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: I think what people mean is not that Miggy is going to just retire but that the Tigers will cut him and just eat the remaining of his contract like the Angels did with Pujols. My question there is that since Cabrera's contract has provisions where it gets extended if he finishes in the top 10 in MVP is that even possible or does that not matter at all? I took his use of the word “retired” at face value. I also think it unlikely they just eat tens of millions of dollars and cut a future Hall of Famer who’s expected to wear the hat there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 What I meant by getting creative with Miggy's contract is converting it to a front office position like Seattle did when Ichiro Suzuki retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Chris Ilitch: "Designated hitter? We've already got a $30 million designated hitter. Why would we need two?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 3 hours ago, chasfh said: I will never understand how people can honestly believe that Miggy is going to simply retire early and forfeit his remaining dollars for the good of the Tiger organization. 2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: I think what people mean is not that Miggy is going to just retire but that the Tigers will cut him and just eat the remaining of his contract like the Angels did with Pujols. My question there is that since Cabrera's contract has provisions where it gets extended if he finishes in the top 10 in MVP is that even possible or does that not matter at all? What RM said. Not that Miggy would "retire", but rather that the Tigers would "retire him". Yes, obviously the Tigers will be paying out the full value of his contract. And he's not going to "retire" to the benefit of the Tigers and the abrogation of his $60 mill. I should be less euphemistic and more explicit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Archie said: What I meant by getting creative with Miggy's contract is converting it to a front office position like Seattle did when Ichiro Suzuki retired. I'm on board with that. He could be the Tigers "Goodwill Ambassador" starting around June of next year, and maybe a "bench coach" as well... well after he's cleared his 3,000 hits and 600 doubles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 He is either going to play baseball or go back to Miami where he lives. He’s not going to trudge around an MLB season away from his family unless he’s playing. Guys like Willie were ambassadors because they lived here. I doubt we see much of Miggy around town when he’s finished. The statue unveiling, “Miggy Day”, HOF, jersey retirement. That’s it. He won’t be coming to Tigerfests in 2045. These guys are already packed up and gone since the Tigers finish on the road. His flight Sunday is from chicago to Miami. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Realistically, what I expect will happen with Cabrera is, nothing anyone can do is going to deter him from playing out the 2022 season. He'll get his 3000, and spend the rest of the season making peace with the reality that he's never going to get 600 HR, nor 3,500 hits. Once he accepts that he's just about reached all the benchmarks worth reaching, he'll be open to an incentivized retirement. The Tigers might offer him a player development gig in Lakeland that over time will pay him more than he is forfeiting by retiring as an active player, he gets to avoid the rigors of traveling and the chilly northern climates, and the Tigers get his salary off their active payroll. That is assuming, of course, that there is a material benefit to the Tigers of getting his salary off the active payroll, such as luxury tax headroom.....which is iffy whether they even get close to that being a concern, based upon other additions we all hope that they make. Alternatively, If the organization stays on the cheap, they might just keep him on the field as a circus attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 He's going to play, both years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: He's going to play, both years. Nah. I don't believe that for one second. 8 minutes ago, Useful Idiot said: Realistically, what I expect will happen with Cabrera is, nothing anyone can do is going to deter him from playing out the 2022 season. He'll get his 3000, and spend the rest of the season making peace with the reality that he's never going to get 600 HR, nor 3,500 hits. Once he accepts that he's just about reached all the benchmarks worth reaching, he'll be open to an incentivized retirement. The Tigers might offer him a player development gig in Lakeland that over time will pay him more than he is forfeiting by retiring as an active player, he gets to avoid the rigors of traveling and the chilly northern climates, and the Tigers get his salary off their active payroll. That is assuming, of course, that there is a material benefit to the Tigers of getting his salary off the active payroll, such as luxury tax headroom.....which is iffy whether they even get close to that being a concern, based upon other additions we all hope that they make. Alternatively, If the organization stays on the cheap, they might just keep him on the field as a circus attraction. You have a few things wrong here: 1) There is no material benefit to the Tigers whatsoever getting him off their books. They have to pay him what they owe him. End of story. And they're not even in the ballpark with regards to luxury tax... they're on the beach soaking up the sun... no taxes whatsoever. 2) The only benefit to getting him off the roster is competitive. If he's turning into a black hole in the lineup - and he did keep his head above water this year... eventually... it took him awhile to get to acceptable numbers - then it benefits the Tigers to just pay him his money and wave him off into the sunset and get an actual contributing bat on the roster. Now... there are political issues involved here between Miggy, the Tigers, and Fans Goodwill... but if it's pure competitive, then the Tigers' need to wave goodbye to Miggy some time in 2022... after he hits milestones. 3) He's not retiring. He's not forfeiting anything. And the Tigers won't pay more than the existing contract obligation to say goodbye. I'm not certain about player development in Lakeland... maybe... He might be down with that. But if the Tigers make a serious playoff push... I think he would absolutely want to be around the team, as bench coach or otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, oblong said: He is either going to play baseball or go back to Miami where he lives. He’s not going to trudge around an MLB season away from his family unless he’s playing.... Tigers make it to the playoffs in either 2022 or 2023 and he's not going to want to be around the team? Wrong answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 2, 2021 Author Share Posted October 2, 2021 Realistically what probably happens is he gets hurt and misses significant time the next two years and the point is moot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Cabrera will finish 2nd in MVP voting to Victor Reyes. Twice. Cabrera will be a Tiger through 2025. Book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: There is no material benefit to the Tigers whatsoever getting him off their books. They have to pay him what they owe him. End of story. And they're not even in the ballpark with regards to luxury tax... For any material benefit to exist, they would have to be flirting with the tax threshold, and want him out of the picture for head room. That is a scenario that is HIGHLY unlikely to come about, but if they did go all out and sign up a roster of all stars....an incentivized retirement could be cheaper than paying his salary PLUS the tax penalty. Not gonna happen, but it is a viable strategy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Look at the welfare-case "assistant to the GM" type jobs they provide? Miggy might like one of those gigs if it keeps him close to home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 29 minutes ago, casimir said: Cabrera will finish 2nd in MVP voting to Victor Reyes. Twice. Cabrera will be a Tiger through 2025. Book it. plus the Tigers will need that payroll headroom to give Matt Boyd that big contract he's got coming. 😈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 I think Miggy will play two more years and if he stays healthy end his career with around 3250 hits and 520 home runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Useful Idiot Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 They could even throw in a Little Caesar's franchise, as a sweetener. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Re: Cabrera. All bets are off after the new CBA. That is to say, the cost isn't sunk until there are games next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: He's going to play, both years. I agree with this. He might be a platoon 4 games week player in 2023 but he will complete his contract and help the team win. We limped through Victor Martienez and we sure as heck will treat the best hitter in Tigers history with the consummate respect he wants and deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microline133 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: He's going to play, both years. This is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 The book is now closed on Manning, Skubal and Mize for '21. So out of that huge stable of arms the Tigers could count three years ago after drafting Miz, 4 have become solid starters - Skubal, Mize, Manning and assuming he comes back healthy in '23, Turnbull. Two look like solid relievers - Funkhouse and Fulmer, Even Feado still has a chance to make the majors after his TJ. On the down side, Norris never turned into the pitcher I thought he might have been, Burrows has pretty much washed out - back in the minors with a different team. And Boyd is just Boyd. But that is still an amazing success rate for pitchers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 On 10/1/2021 at 5:33 PM, 1984Echoes said: And I agree with Casimir... There's hope for you after all..... 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoBert Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 17 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: He's going to play, both years. Yes 11 hours ago, microline133 said: This is correct. Yes 16 hours ago, oblong said: Realistically what probably happens is he gets hurt and misses significant time the next two years and the point is moot Yes He wants to play and the Tigers can’t treat him like a burned out whore who isn’t pretty anymore. More confidence than is rational is a part of the psychological and emotional make up of every big-time athlete. The Tigers are a business that offered him a contract and he signed it. He plays until he physically breaks down or his contract is over. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, IdahoBert said: Yes Yes Yes He wants to play and the Tigers can’t treat him like a burned out whore who isn’t pretty anymore. More confidence than is rational is a part of the psychological and emotional make up of every big-time athlete. The Tigers are a business that offered him a contract and he signed it. He plays until he physically breaks down or his contract is over. Period. Cabrera was productive for 4 of 6 months this season, and they don't have other bats that can't field vying for the DH spot so I don't see Cabrera as an immediate issue. Paredes is going to be in Toledo trying to figure out how to hit the ball hard and fair at the same time, W. Castro and Niko will be gone or on the bench so 2b will be open for Schoop leaving 1B open for Torkelson - who can give Candelario a few more days off than he got this year if Cabrera still gets a few games at 1B. It's catcher and short they have to worry about. Barring injuries I don't see big positional battles/issues anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Cabrera was productive for 4 of 6 months this season, and they don't have other bats that can't field vying for the DH spot so I don't see Cabrera as an immediate issue. Paredes is going to be in Toledo trying to figure out how to hit the ball hard and fair at the same time, W. Castro and Niko will be gone or on the bench so 2b will be open for Schoop leaving 1B open for Torkelson - who can give Candelario a few more days off than he got this year if Cabrera still gets a few games at 1B. It's catcher and short they have to worry about. Barring injuries I don't see big positional battles/issues anywhere else. Agreed. Although I'm coming around on the idea of another outfielder bat... Probably a dumb idea, but with a position like catcher, whether that may be something that could be accomplished through trade versus free agency? Just to add flexibility or options. Maybe try to get someone like Tom Murphy or Pedro Severino who may be supplanted by prospects with their respective clubs before too long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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