5/26 7:10 Guardians @ Tigers

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

why are we even considering that either Mize or Manning might be a bust?  players get injured and often come back and can be productive.  Even if either requires a significant surgery, it's not a death sentence for their career.  Sure, it would be a setback and defer their contributions, but until we learn that they can't be productive contributors to a winning team, I'd encourage some healthy cautious optimism.

Meadows is the one I'm concerned with--I really hope whatever he's going through is temporary.  I was excited about adding him to the roster for at least the next couple of seasons.

 

 

I start considering that pitchers might be a bust due to injury before they even get injured!

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I start considering that pitchers might be a bust due to injury before they even get injured!

In the case of Mize, I feel like it's gone beyond consideration and more into declaration at this point. 

I do think Tenacious D' point is fair through, Skubal 2022 is sort of living proof that young pitchers can struggle yet improve over time. These guys are still developing.

[gehringer_2]

58 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Well if Greene and Tork end up being stars I think that would offset the potential busts of Manning and Mize.  That would essentially be about a 50% hit rate on your top 10 picks(not counting jobe) which I would imagine is about the best you could realistically hope for. 

TJ is something like >90% successful for pitchers, the question first for Mize is whether he will heal without it, and second if he doesn't is he going to lose this year and all of next yr because it took too long to determine the 1st question.

Manning's physical condition seems much less serious, but the jury is still out on how good a pitcher he can be. Has certainly shown flashes to be hopeful about but that's about it so far.

Faedo looks reasonably competitive against MLB hitters, esp given how little rehab time he's had from his surgery. I'm pretty optimistic about him right now.

Edited May 26, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

TJ is something like >90% successful for pitchers, the question first for Mize is whether will heal without it, and second if he doesn't is he going to lose this year and all of next yr because it took too long to determine the 1st question.

It depends on how you define success.  About 90% return to pitching, but many either don't do as well or they get injured again. You hear about the ones that do better after surgery, but a lot of them don't have that kind of success.   

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It depends on how you define success.  About 90% return to pitching, but many either don't do as well or they get injured again. You hear about the ones that do better after surgery, but a lot of them don't have that kind of success.   

I count Bruce Rondon as a probable failed TJ. He got his velo back well enough but never recovered any command at all after the surgery. I don't think that was ever given as the reason he was not successful post surgery just because he could throw just as hard again, but joint stability is required for command and that is part of the outcome.

Edited May 26, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Tigeraholic1]

 

 

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

 

Gotta be honest about that stuff... that sucks

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Manning's physical condition seems much less serious, but the jury is still out on how good a pitcher he can be. Has certainly shown flashes to be hopeful about but that's about it so far.

 

LOL/🥲  that aged well.

How do you get bicep tendinitis when you aren't throwing? Rehab workouts too hard?

Edited May 26, 2022 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, kdog said:

I thought Mize without the splitter would be a durable mid-range starter.  Now that he's hurt and teetering towards TJ surgery, I have to wonder if he even be decent.

Mize picked up the splitter again on his own during the offseason.

[mtutiger]

Forgot about Alexander lol

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Buried the lead... AJ seems happy

Well, A.J. has to work here, so what else is he going to say, right?

But as long as he gets major input on getting this franchise's processes out of the red and into the black, I can't see him bailing on us. I believe if he does bail on us, it will be because promises to him were broken.

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

 

God damn that warrior mentality, trying to push through the pain and getting hurt worse because of it. Especially true for a guy who's going to get every chance to succeed.

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

God damn that warrior mentality, trying to push through the pain and getting hurt worse because of it. Especially true for a guy who's going to get every chance to succeed.

It's stupid, but it's really hard not to, especially when you're young.  

[mtutiger]

[mtutiger]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

God damn that warrior mentality, trying to push through the pain and getting hurt worse because of it. Especially true for a guy who's going to get every chance to succeed.

Yeah, he needs to take his time... he has his whole career ahead of him!

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's stupid, but it's really hard not to, especially when you're young.  

Yeah, I get it, it's the prevailing mentality of young men competing together to defeat an opponent, whether we're talking about sports or we're talking about war. The individual is expected to fully subsume himself to the group's goal, and to do anything, including perform through pain, to help achieve the goal, because god help you if you admit you're hurt and pull yourself out of commission, only to lose by the margin that would have turned on your contribution.

Edited May 26, 2022 by chasfh

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

In that instance it would seem the 1sts are fails and the 9th is luck.  A team cannot tank then swing & miss on 1sts.  They simply can't.

Looking back on the draft, who did you want the Tigers to take? Hindsight is always 20-20.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

why are we even considering that either Mize or Manning might be a bust?  players get injured and often come back and can be productive.  Even if either requires a significant surgery, it's not a death sentence for their career.  Sure, it would be a setback and defer their contributions, but until we learn that they can't be productive contributors to a winning team, I'd encourage some healthy cautious optimism.

Meadows is the one I'm concerned with--I really hope whatever he's going through is temporary.  I was excited about adding him to the roster for at least the next couple of seasons.

 

 

Boyd got hurt and was due for arbitration. Tigers let him walk. Hopefully, Mize and Mannkng come back and earn new contracts with the Tigers.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I start considering that pitchers might be a bust due to injury before they even get injured!

And I'm already planning my recovery from monkeypox.

[Tenacious D]

30 minutes ago, chasfh said:

God damn that warrior mentality, trying to push through the pain and getting hurt worse because of it. Especially true for a guy who's going to get every chance to succeed.

He had a short outing a couple of days ago—that’s when he might have noticed it.  There’s no evidence that he has tried to pitch since.

[Tenacious D]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Boyd got hurt and was due for arbitration. Tigers let him walk. Hopefully, Mize and Mannkng come back and earn new contracts with the Tigers.

They are controlled for many more years.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

He had a short outing a couple of days ago—that’s when he might have noticed it.  There’s no evidence that he has tried to pitch since.

I'll bet he noticed the pain and tried to pitch through it a long time before this.

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

They are controlled for many more years.

Not if they need TJ surgery. The Tigers would still have to offer them contracts for next season. And the earliest they could come back is 2024.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

 

 

Good on him for coming clean.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Looking back on the draft, who did you want the Tigers to take? Hindsight is always 20-20.

If the plan is to tank and draft, they’ve got to hit on the picks.  Because otherwise they’ve had awful seasons with the big club, and they didn’t get the dividends that they were hoping for.