Religion

[Mr.TaterSalad]

One thing I've never understood about God is this. If this God is supposed to be all knowing, all powerful, and has the ability to do anything they want, but simply chooses not to, isn't that legally speaking a form of neglect? If we are God's children, isn't he neglecting us?

If I'm a parent of a newborn child I hold power over whether or not that child lives because it cannot provide for itself. I hold the power to feed that child, give it drink, bathe it, shelter it in warmth, provide it basic medical care, and on. If I purposefully choose not to do one or more of those things and something physically harmful happens to my child I'm legally negligent for not doing what I was powerful and otherwise capable of doing. I had the power to ensure my child's needs to survive were being met, I neglected them by my own choice, and thus I face legal punishment from the law. 

But with God, apparently it's not neglect. Even though they are all knowing and all powerful, people don't care that they abscond from their duties. They know someone may starve to death and die, but don't do anything.

We are told by Christians, Muslims, and Jews, those of the Abrahamic faiths, that we are God's children. Why aren't people outraged at the neglect God shows us? If the average religious person found out their neighbor was purposefully starving their newborn baby they would be outraged. But when God does it to his own children, somehow that's justified. 

Edited March 23 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Mr.TaterSalad]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Timothy kind of sounds like a ****. 

Hey, that's part of living a biblical life right.

[Tiger337]

On 12/26/2024 at 3:06 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

Still can't give me a straight answer as to why Biden did not grant clemency to all 40 federal death row inmates? Did he and the pointy hat guy in vatican city work out a back door deal?

Just the other day, I was telling a Trump voting Catholc friend that it's just a matter of time before the MAGAs start turning on the Catholics...  

[Dan Gilmore]

I think the Magats just prefer the other pointy hat group, the ones that include a mask over the face. Although it seems the mask is no longer needed to hide behind.

[gehringer_2]

14 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Timothy kind of sounds like a ****. 

Actually, Timothy is the letter's recipient, it's purported writer is Paul, who was Timothy's mentor - more or less.

[gehringer_2]

On 12/26/2024 at 3:06 PM, Tigeraholic1 said:

Still can't give me a straight answer as to why Biden did not grant clemency to all 40 federal death row inmates? Did he and the pointy hat guy in vatican city work out a back door deal?

What interest would the Pope have in Biden not granting the clemency?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Just the other day, I was telling a Trump voting Catholc friend that it's just a matter of time before the MAGAs start turning on the Catholics...  

Yeah - Francis has been pretty quiet - probably because he's one foot in the grave at this point. Who knows if a new Pope would see making trouble for Trump as a way to prove his bona fides or not?

[chasfh]

18 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

We are told by Christians, Muslims, and Jews, those of the Abrahamic faiths, that we are God's children. Why aren't people outraged at the neglect God shows us?

Because since God is all perfect and all knowing and all wise, there is a reason he does things even if we don;t understand, so we have to trust in Him and everything will turn out according to the Divine Plan.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, did I say "God"? I meant Trump.

[CMRivdogs]

 

[1776]

On 3/22/2025 at 11:40 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

One thing I've never understood about God is this. If this God is supposed to be all knowing, all powerful, and has the ability to do anything they want, but simply chooses not to, isn't that legally speaking a form of neglect? If we are God's children, isn't he neglecting us?

I believe your questions are probably raised a million times a day. Good questions.

A number of authors have responded to these concerns. I’ll drop a book here if you’re interested in getting some clarification on this topic.

Where is God in All the Suffering? Author: Amy Orr Ewing

Disclaimer: I have not read this particular book but I have read enough through other authors addressing this topic to pretty much know what her responses are going to be.
I asked the same questions for years. The answers through the authors I’ve read make sense. Check it out. 
The above book is on Amazon in paperback for @ $10. It’s 160 pages short, perfect! Publication 2020.

 

[CMRivdogs]

On 3/22/2025 at 11:40 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

One thing I've never understood about God is this. If this God is supposed to be all knowing, all powerful, and has the ability to do anything they want, but simply chooses not to, isn't that legally speaking a form of neglect? If we are God's children, isn't he neglecting us?

 

 

I'll give you my "Back Pew Presbyterian" viewpoint which has evolved to a somewhat Jefferson view of religion.

There has always been a Ying/Yang when it comes to good and evil. The counterpart to God has been Satin. I don't think one could exist without the other.

When "God" placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden they were instructed not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. He also gave them choice.

When they ate from the Tree all bets were off. 

[pfife]

Where is our pope francis appreciation thread?

This dude was so wonderful.

[chasfh]

The best thing he did was appoint the **** out of that Cardinal College. Like 80% of those guys are his.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

The best thing he did was appoint the **** out of that Cardinal College. Like 80% of those guys are his.

My question would be how long does it take for the average Cardinal to get co-opted by the institution/Curia and how many are still the people they were when he elevated them?

Edited Wednesday at 04:47 AM by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

My question would be how long does it take for the average Cardinal to get co-opted by the institution/Curia and how many are still the people they were when he elevated them?

I would have trouble believing the majority of his appointees would change from liberal to reactionary like so. That’s almost Da Vinci-level conspiracy ****.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I would have trouble believing the majority of his appointees would change from liberal to reactionary like so. That’s almost Da Vinci-level conspiracy ****.

You don't have to go from one extreme to the other to be co-opted. Look at your average US Senator after 10 or 15 yr in office. They may be in the same party, but they may also have bought pretty deeply into the institution they arrived at thinking they would change.

Edited Wednesday at 01:00 PM by gehringer_2

[ewsieg]

10 hours ago, chasfh said:

The best thing he did was appoint the **** out of that Cardinal College. Like 80% of those guys are his.

I was pleasantly surprised to learn this the other day.  Just didn't seem like he was Pope long enough, but he has been around longer than I realized.  

We have not officially left the Catholic church, but my daughters last year of catechism was awful and our priest would be happy to revert back to "MAGA" Catholicism.  Apparently everything was better when folks showed up because they were afraid of being ostracized by family and community and just kept their head down while the priest gave mass in Latin.  We haven't stepped back in that church since she was confirmed and I won't be going back there as long as the current priest is still there.  Unfortunately with all the consolidation, he also oversees several other Catholic churches in the area, so we haven't even bothered to try and look elsewhere.  

I really hope someone that aligns with Francis' values is picked, we need those values to be celebrated again.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

You don't have to go from one extreme to the other to be co-opted. Look at your average US Senator after 10 or 15 yr in office. They may be in the same party, but they may also have bought pretty deeply into the institution they arrived at thinking they would change.

The Catholic Church is not the United States Senate and they have not proven themselves to be anything like the Republican Party overtaken by ultra right-wing thugs. Unless you have information I don't, I'm not going to take the unsupported leap with you that all the Catholic liberals Francis appointed must de facto have been co-opted by reactionary right wing forces in the Holy See.

[chasfh]

51 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I was pleasantly surprised to learn this the other day.  Just didn't seem like he was Pope long enough, but he has been around longer than I realized. 

That's because you're getting old like the rest of us and you're realizing that 12 years is a blink of the eye. 😉

51 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

We have not officially left the Catholic church, but my daughters last year of catechism was awful and our priest would be happy to revert back to "MAGA" Catholicism.  Apparently everything was better when folks showed up because they were afraid of being ostracized by family and community and just kept their head down while the priest gave mass in Latin.  We haven't stepped back in that church since she was confirmed and I won't be going back there as long as the current priest is still there.  Unfortunately with all the consolidation, he also oversees several other Catholic churches in the area, so we haven't even bothered to try and look elsewhere.  

I really hope someone that aligns with Francis' values is picked, we need those values to be celebrated again.

I miss the 70s when the Catholic Church was all in on hippie Jesus and folky guitar masses. I didn't leave in the 2000s because it was right wing—I left because it became soul-sucking drudergy more concerned with fundraising than soul saving. Yeah, I know, they were always like that, but by then they'd stop bothering to pretend. It was almost like going to a timeshare seminar. Maybe that's just the parish I crapped out of, who knows.

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Catholic Church is not the United States Senate and they have not proven themselves to be anything like the Republican Party overtaken by ultra right-wing thugs. Unless you have information I don't, I'm not going to take the unsupported leap with you that all the Catholic liberals Francis appointed must de facto have been co-opted by reactionary right wing forces in the Holy See.

man - bring it down a notch. You are  overeading what I'm saying. And I wasn't even thinking about the GOP, I was thinking about the DEMS! . And I would argue the college of cardinals and US senate have a good deal in common, but we can leave that for another day. It's just human nature than when you become a part of any institution its imperatives will have a draw that any given human being will resist to greater or lesser degree and I guarantee you that some of those cardinals that Francis appointed have drifted into becoming a new old-guard interested in protecting the insitution just like the people they replaced. That doesn't mean they have necessarily made any u-turns in their theology, but that they have become less interested in driving change than they may have been when appointed and thus  - to get to the case at hand, less likely to support a papal candidate even as unorthodox as Francis was. We will find out how many, if any, when they pick a new pope.

Edited Wednesday at 02:55 PM by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

man - bring it down a notch. You are  overeading what I'm saying. And I wasn't even thinking about the GOP, I was thinking about the DEMS! . And I would argue the college of cardinals and US senate have a good deal in common, but we can leave that for another day. It's just human nature than when you become a part of any institution its imperatives will have a draw that any given human being will resist to greater or lesser degree and I guarantee you that some of those cardinals that Francis appointed have drifted into becoming a new old-guard interested in protecting the insitution just like the people they replaced. That doesn't mean they have necessarily made any u-turns in their theology, but that they have become less interested in driving change than they may have been when appointed and thus  - to get to the case at hand, less likely to support a papal candidate even as unorthodox as Francis was.

How did the DEMS slip into this? Weren't we talking about the Church? You were suggesting in this post that numerous Francis appointees may be getting rolled by reactionary forces in the Curia and won't vote liberal in the next conclave. But literally 80% of the conclave was appointed by Francis, so it would take something like two-fifths of them to flip for another Ratzenberger-type to win, and even that assumes all the non-Francis cardinals going hard right on their ballots. So, short of actual information anyone might have that this has been happening, I'm not even going to speculate that even might happen. Of course I could be proven wrong on this, but absent mere hunches, I gotta believe a liberal will have the inside track, particularly if the next guy comes from Africa or Asia, as has been the strong speculation.

[gehringer_2]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

particularly if the next guy comes from Africa or Asia, as has been the strong speculation.

if the next guy comes from Africa he may well be more on the  conservative side than people may bargain for.  In the UMC, it was African representation at the 2018/19 General Conferences that sided with US conservatives on LGBTQ issues to win the votes that eventually led to the fracture of the UMC. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:25 PM by gehringer_2

[Deleterious]

😄

 

[Tiger337]

On 4/23/2025 at 11:20 AM, gehringer_2 said:

if the next guy comes from Africa he may well be more on the  conservative side than people may bargain for.  In the UMC, it was African representation at the 2018/19 General Conferences that sided with US conservatives on LGBTQ issues to win the votes that eventually led to the fracture of the UMC. 

 

In my experience, I would agree that a Catholic from Africa would likely be very conservative with respect to LGBTQ.