Tigermojo Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Religious discussion popped up recently in the Tiger forum because some players are refusing to wear uniforms for Pride day. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Leviticus 20:13-16 King James Version (KJV) 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 The Bible pretty much contradicts itself. If you a moral objection to homosexuality, than don't be gay. It seems rather simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, 1776 said: Leviticus 20:13-16 King James Version (KJV) 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What am I missing? That there about 500 things in Leviticus you can be put to death for - put fire in a censor in the wrong place? Yahweh's gonna roast you. If you want to strap your wagon that OT God that commanded his people to massacre civilians without mercy and dash the head of enemy infants on rocks, that personally sent an angel of death to destroy the lives of thousands of innocent Egyptian children, that prescribes casting lots to decide what is truth (Umin and Thummin anyone?), that wiped out a man's family for a boast to the Devil, you go for it. But don't tell me it has anything to do with Jesus. The OT is not anyone's inspired anything. It's a long historical pastiche and re-edited chronicle of one ancient people's understanding of themselves and their own history and who they thought God was. That's a lot, but it's nothing more that that. In the same way that the best an ancient vagabond population could understand a universe of quantum physics and general relativity was a creation story like Genesis, the best they could reflect of their moral world was the OT. It was a low bar. Edited June 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasTiger Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I'm sure none of those players work on the sabbath. Pick and choose which laws to follow to support your worldview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: That there about 500 things in Leviticus you can be put to death for - put fire in a censor in the wrong place? Yahweh's gonna roast you. If you want to strap your wagon that OT God that commanded his people to massacre civilians without mercy and dash the head of enemy infants on rocks, that personally sent an angel of death to destroy the lives of thousands of innocent Egyptian children, that prescribes casting lots to decide what is truth (Umin and Thummin anyone?), that wiped out a man's family for a boast to the Devil, you go for it. But don't tell me it has anything to do with Jesus. The OT is not anyone's inspired anything. It's a long historical pastiche and re-edited chronicle of one ancient people's understanding of themselves and their own history and who they thought God was. That's a lot, but it's nothing more that that. In the same way that the best an ancient vagabond population could understand a universe of quantum physics and general relativity was a creation story like Genesis, the best they could reflect of their moral world was the OT. It was a low bar. I posted the above scripture as clear evidence that the bible does address homosexuality. There were comments in the baseball thread that challenged whether homosexuality was specifically or directly addressed in the bible. Clearly it is in other verses as well. I probably should have made that clear in the initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 minute ago, 1776 said: I posted the above scripture as clear evidence that the bible does address homosexuality. There were comments in the baseball thread that challenged whether homosexuality was specifically or directly addressed in the bible. Clearly it is in other verses as well. I probably should have made that clear in the initial post. Actually, I think the challenge was to point out where Jesus said anything about homosexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Also, quoting Leviticus , make sure you also recognize that if I chose to have sex during menstruation, you can line me up against a wall and stone me to death.…. plus , about 610 other laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Btw, having a “Religion” thread is a truly awful idea. I apologize for responding. That was just stupid. I won’t lock the thread, but it just seems like a no-brainer. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: The Bible pretty much contradicts itself. If you a moral objection to homosexuality, than don't be gay. It seems rather simple. Where does the bible contradict itself on this subject? The only way there can be a contradiction is if homosexuality is explicitly condoned in a scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted June 9, 2022 Author Share Posted June 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, smr-nj said: Btw, having a “Religion” thread is a truly awful idea. I apologize for responding. That was just stupid. I won’t lock the thread, but it just seems like a no-brainer. Baseball discussion was getting interrupted by religion/homosexuality discussion so I made a thread here instead. Someone has to stand up against ignorance. Passing judgement on people because of what a book says is ignorant. If we are all sinners, why condemn certain groups more harshly than others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, 1776 said: Where does the bible contradict itself on this subject? The only way there can be a contradiction is if homosexuality is explicitly condoned in a scripture. You just said it's pretty straightforward. There are many things that are contradicted in the Bible. Bottom line is I don't need these fairy tale beliefs pushed on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, 1776 said: I posted the above scripture as clear evidence that the bible does address homosexuality. There were comments in the baseball thread that challenged whether homosexuality was specifically or directly addressed in the bible. Clearly it is in other verses as well. I probably should have made that clear in the initial post. Fair enough. I would also clarify (without looking up thread for my exact quote) that I didn't say you couldn't find your citation in the OT, what I believe I said was the current church's fixation/emphasis on sexual sins "was not OT or NT" and I will stand by that. Other than David effectively murdering Uriah to gain Bathsheba there are almost no narratives about sexual indiscretion highlighted in the OT. Consider for example that there is no condemnation of Samson or Delilah for their dalliances, only for Samson allowing his vow to be violated. Compared to say, idol worship, sexual sins don't even make the cut for importance in the OT and as I noted their omission from the decalogue is certainly suggestive of the view of their relative importance even in that culture. Edited June 9, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I have wadded through these waters here but I will not anymore, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: You just said it's pretty straightforward. There are many things that are contradicted in the Bible. Bottom line is I don't need these fairy tale beliefs pushed on me. So you come to the “Religion” thread and then comment that you don’t need these beliefs pushed on you. So I guess the obvious question is, why do you read this thread? And btw, nobody’s pushing anything here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, 1776 said: So you come to the “Religion” thread and then comment that you don’t need these beliefs pushed on you. So I guess the obvious question is, why do you read this thread? And btw, nobody’s pushing anything here. well, that's not exactly fair. Things are being 'pushed' on the society of which we are all members to we all have a legitimate interest in the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, 1776 said: I posted the above scripture as clear evidence that the bible does address homosexuality. There were comments in the baseball thread that challenged whether homosexuality was specifically or directly addressed in the bible. Clearly it is in other verses as well. I probably should have made that clear in the initial post. The question was whether Jesus mentioned homosexuality. I know that many Christians believe that the Bible was dictated by God/Jesus, but some agnostic Christians see Jesus as a person separate from the Bible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 39 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I have wadded through these waters here but I will not anymore, however. It's kind of pointless. Believers make God the most important thing in their lives and non-believers don't see him as real. So, there is no way of ever coming to an agreement. Still, I find these kinds of discussions interesting. I just don't get upset about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Fan Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 15 hours ago, Tiger337 said: It's kind of pointless. Believers make God the most important thing in their lives and non-believers don't see him as real. So, there is no way of ever coming to an agreement. Still, I find these kinds of discussions interesting. I just don't get upset about it. I appreciate your openness Lee. You are correct that if you don't believe there is a God, you won't believe the Bible is an accurate book to live by. Matthew 22: 1–14 The best argument for me is the fact that nothing in the Bible has ever been proven wrong. It seems like every year a new "find" has proven the Bible to be accurrate. There are still a few predictions the Bible says will happen at the end times. We may or may not be around to see them. Just as all predictions from the Bible have proven correct so far, I feel the future will unfortunately, see the remainder fulfilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 16 hours ago, 1776 said: Where does the bible contradict itself on this subject? The only way there can be a contradiction is if homosexuality is explicitly condoned in a scripture. really? That's the only way? it says to love thy neighbor and also to stone thy neighbor if he has sex with a dude pretty clear contradiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 I can never wrap my head around how God is loving and forgiving, but I also must fear God because God can be vengeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Fan Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I can never wrap my head around how God is loving and forgiving, but I also must fear God because God can be vengeful. I don't know if you are a parent. Picture yourself with a child. If that child is "good", I would assume you would love that child. If that child became unruly, would you still love that child? I would, but I would insist that child be disciplined, to correct an unruly behavior. I believe God works in a similar manner and the Bible confirms that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said: I don't know if you are a parent. Picture yourself with a child. If that child is "good", I would assume you would love that child. If that child became unruly, would you still love that child? I would, but I would insist that child be disciplined, to correct an unruly behavior. I believe God works in a similar manner and the Bible confirms that. I was under the impression children just needed more prayer. Sounds more like God is bipolar. Should have invested more in mental health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ancient Fan said: I don't know if you are a parent. Picture yourself with a child. If that child is "good", I would assume you would love that child. If that child became unruly, would you still love that child? I would, but I would insist that child be disciplined, to correct an unruly behavior. I believe God works in a similar manner and the Bible confirms that. So when the Bible says to stone homosexuals, is that an effort to make the dead person less gay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 19 hours ago, 1776 said: Leviticus 20:13-16 King James Version (KJV) 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Seems pretty straightforward to me. What am I missing? Leviticus 11:7-8 KJV: And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. Something to keep in mind the next time you order that pork chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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