Religion

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

 

PS: And I don't see how the Palestinians can trust Putin either.

Aside from transactional that is...

I mean, he already F'd the Armenians. Not to mention Ukraine (their "Slavic cousins"...)

And he's made several veiled threats against Byelorussia and Kazakhstan as well...

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by 1984Echoes

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I, personally, would love to see anyone make the argument to a room of politicians (GOP and Dem) that Israel shouldn't get any funding because, don't worry, the war machine always gets theirs....

They would (with good reason) be laughed and/or jeered out of the room. Because it is a specious and unserious argument that isn't founded in anything concrete. 

And the same would hold true with Ukraine as well.... if Congresscritters want to vote to cut off aid, they should be made to own that decision, not covered by unserious arguments that hinge on throwaway lines about "the war machine" and whatnot.

This more than anything.

Does no one remember "Iran-Contra" anymore, btw?

[Tigeraholic1]

2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

PS: And I don't see how the Palestinians can trust Putin either.

Aside from transactional that is...

I mean, he already F'd the Armenians. Not to mention Ukraine (their "Slavic cousins"...)

And he's made several veiled threats against Byelorussia and Kazakhstan as well...

 

 

Putin is all for running around starting or stoking as many fires as possible right now.

[ewsieg]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Stan wasn't going off of actual roll call votes in the House whenever he made claims about anything.

At the time the 'defund the police' talk was loud and we were seeing protests and riots in the streets, folks like Stan absolutely feared that the democrats would eventually make those votes to defund the police.  Ultimately, and probably through an Omnibus, nothing changed and now the right wing talk is 'well, they would like too' vs 'they are going to do it'.  It'll never happen though.

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Ah yes, organized religion is just so wonderful.    Making one side hate another side because their version of an invisible entity doesn't line up with the other's version of an invisible entity.         People who grew up blocks from each other.    It would be like Dearborn and Melvindale being in a perpetual war.   

My (man-made created origin story so absolutely NOT REAL) god doesn't like your (man-made created origin story so absolutely NOT REAL) god...

So I must EXTERMINATE you!!! Pogrom (Christians murdering Jews)! Inquisition (Christians murdering Jews)! Holocaust (Christians murdering Jews)! Crusades (Christians murdering Muslims)! Pakistani independence (Hindi & Muslim murdering each other)! Jews are in Palestine (Israel) - (Muslims murdering Jews)!

Absolutely grotesque behavior.

All over something that doesn't even exist except within peoples' heads...

Despicable.

Can we just wipe this scourge (religion) off the map? It no longer exists (please, please, please).

The world would be a better place. IMO.

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Putin is all for running around starting or stoking as many fires as possible right now.

Correct.... and I wish it were easier for some to see both what is happening in Israel and Ukraine in that broader context versus just playing one off the other (ie. Josh Hawley's statement)

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

At the time the 'defund the police' talk was loud and we were seeing protests and riots in the streets, folks like Stan absolutely feared that the democrats would eventually make those votes to defund the police.  Ultimately, and probably through an Omnibus, nothing changed and now the right wing talk is 'well, they would like too' vs 'they are going to do it'.  It'll never happen though.

OK.

Still would assume that GOP members of Congress who voted to defund Ukraine are proud of their votes and should be able to stand behind it, rather than being excused for it for nebulous reasons.

Edited October 10, 2023 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

Can we just wipe this scourge (religion) off the map? It no longer exists (please, please, please).

The world would be a better place. IMO.

 

[gehringer_2]

It's a big assumption that people wouldn't be just as good at finding other reasons to kill each other in the absence of organized religions - genocides by Stalin, the Khmer Rouge, Rawanda come to mind.  Even the Holocaust, while it was directed at a religious group, was not a religious imperative of German Lutheranism. Religion often becomes the stalking horse to dress up more fundamental aims of conquest, greed, land, ethnicity. Still, if conquest were made a harder sell without the availability of the gloss of God's consent, that might be progress.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's a big assumption that people wouldn't be just as good at finding other reasons to kill each other in the absence of organized religions - genocides by Stalin, the Khmer Rouge, Rawanda come to mind.  Even the Holocaust, while it was directed at a religious group, was not a religious imperative of German Lutheranism. Religion often becomes the stalking horse to dress up more fundamental aims of conquest, greed, land, ethnicity. Still, if conquest were made a harder sell without the availability of the gloss of God's consent, that might be progress.

I agree that not all internecine violence would be wiped out were religion also wiped out, but it's at least a debatable proposition that the world would be a better place.

[Jim Cowan]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

It's a big assumption that people wouldn't be just as good at finding other reasons to kill each other in the absence of organized religions - genocides by Stalin, the Khmer Rouge, Rawanda come to mind.  Even the Holocaust, while it was directed at a religious group, was not a religious imperative of German Lutheranism. Religion often becomes the stalking horse to dress up more fundamental aims of conquest, greed, land, ethnicity. Still, if conquest were made a harder sell without the availability of the gloss of God's consent, that might be progress.

Oh absolutely,  "for God and country" is a good way to stir up the unwashed but conflict is always about land or water or gold or other economic resources.  

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Oh absolutely,  "for God and country" is a good way to stir up the unwashed but conflict is always about land or water or gold or other economic resources.  

I wonder whether God and country is a harder sell now that belief in religion and even God has waned over the centuries. Centuries ago, life for the masses was such a slog that dying in a war to ensure a spot in heaven might have seemed like a pretty sweet deal.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

life for the masses was such a slog that dying in a war to ensure a spot in heaven might have seemed like a pretty sweet deal.

This is still working pretty well for Putin in asiatic Russia but now it's a car for the wife once you're dead.

Edited October 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

This is still working pretty well for Putin in asiatic Russia but now it's a car for the wife once you're dead.

Haven't they been emptying the prisons and the gulags for this war?

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Haven't they been emptying the prisons and the gulags for this war?

Indeed, but I suppose technically it was Wagner that had the primary prison recruitment mandate. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Serious question, what's the real difference between Bibi Netanyahu and Putin from a governance and philosophical standpoint? It seems to me that both are corrupt, far right, authoritarians. The difference to me seems that Putin has coalesced power in a way that Bibi has not yet. But I have no doubt in my mind that if Bibi could have the level of power and control that Putin does he'd take it in an instant.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[1984Echoes]

37 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Serious question, what's the real difference between Bibi Netanyahu and Putin from a governance and philosophical standpoint? It seems to me that both are corrupt, far right, authoritarians. The difference to me seems that Putin has coalesced power in a way that Bibi has not yet. But I have no doubt in my mind that if Bibi could have the level of power and control that Putin does he'd take it in an instant.

Bibi got caught with his corruption.

Putin hasn't.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Bibi got caught with his corruption.

Putin can't.

FIFY

[1984Echoes]

46 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

FIFY

Your version might be changing back to mine if the Russians don't start faring better.

Nothing on the immediate horizon...

But the economy is nearing discontent level...

[Tigeraholic1]

Israel is preparing an invasion force. How involved will we be, Ukraine level?

[1984Echoes]

Probably.

It will look different, with naval assets involved.

 

The big question to me is what happens if Iran ends up holding a smoking gun?

THEN our involvement may look VERY different.

[Tigeraholic1]

18 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Probably.

It will look different, with naval assets involved.

 

The big question to me is what happens if Iran ends up holding a smoking gun?

THEN our involvement may look VERY different.

Do you consider Hamas a terrorist org or military force of Gaza?

[1984Echoes]

Both.

They are a military force in Gaza that holds all the power.

But they're a terrorist group that uses vile, unspeakable, terrorist methods to try and wipe out the State of Israel... their stated mission.

[CMRivdogs]

 

[Tiger337]