The 2022 Midterm Elections

[oblong]

It's low risk for guys like Cruz to do what he did.

It's a dynamic where your rights as a worker are important up until the point you can crash the economy. There's a reason certain industries have those kinds of rules, like the flight controllers.  Not saying their demands were at all unreasonable. 

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

It's low risk for guys like Cruz to do what he did.

This is a good point... if there was any risk of the 7 days passing the Senate, I'm convinced Cruz wouldn't have voted as he did.

Out of the six who voted the way they did, I take Rubio out at his word because he's been consistent. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz? Not so much

[mtutiger]

30 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I dont know how realistic it was to get the necessary votes to extend the deadline, especially with the requirement of 60 in the Senate. But clearly, a strike really wasn't something that anyone would countenance.

Just to follow up on this:

https://rollcall.com/2022/12/01/senate-clears-rail-labor-agreement-rejects-sick-leave/

Prior to passage, the Senate voted 26-69 against an amendment offered by Sen. Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska, that would increase the cooling-off period for freight railroads and unions that expires Dec. 4.

Extending the cooling off period was not an option.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

A strike would have definitely hurt the economy.  No doubt about it.  But again, in the end, Union railway workers have zero paid sick time and all the money they sent in to elect democrats resulted in nothing to show for it.  But hey, maybe next time right? 

Not sure whether you read the article Deleterious linked to, but it gives a pretty good overview of how the delicately-balanced scheduling of rail cargo more or less precludes generous sick leave for workers.

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

This is a good point... if there was any risk of the 7 days passing the Senate, I'm convinced Cruz wouldn't have voted as he did.

Out of the six who voted the way they did, I take Rubio out at his word because he's been consistent. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz? Not so much

Of course Cruz did it for political points.  

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Just to follow up on this:

https://rollcall.com/2022/12/01/senate-clears-rail-labor-agreement-rejects-sick-leave/

Prior to passage, the Senate voted 26-69 against an amendment offered by Sen. Dan Sullivan, R-Alaska, that would increase the cooling-off period for freight railroads and unions that expires Dec. 4.

Extending the cooling off period was not an option.

So they couldn't vote to extend it, because they had already voted not to extend it. Got it.

13 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Not sure whether you read the article Deleterious linked to, but it gives a pretty good overview of how the delicately-balanced scheduling of rail cargo more or less precludes generous sick leave for workers.

Wonder why Democrats got this extended prior to the election when it's obvious that rail cargo workers simply can't have generous (aka any) sick leave.  Wonder why they just didn't deal with it then, since it was obviously what they should do.   Things that make you go hmmm.

[mtutiger]

51 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Wonder why Democrats got this extended prior to the election when it's obvious that rail cargo workers simply can't have generous (aka any) sick leave.  Wonder why they just didn't deal with it then, since it was obviously what they should do.   Things that make you go hmmm.

The reasoning is pretty mundane - after negotiations on the the current deal between the administration, management and labor representatives (which was just enforced), each of the 14 unions were then given time to vote and ratify the new agreement on their own. In other words, actual membership was given time to vote on whether to ratify the agreement. Some unions did in fact ratify while others did not, but ratification would have required all of them to agree otherwise they would have struck in solidarity with one another.

When that process did not work, it kinda left us at this juncture.

Edited December 5, 2022 by mtutiger

[ewsieg]

I know you guys hate both sidsin', but there is something deep down in me that suspects if Trump and a GOP controlled congress did this they wouldn't be getting the excuses you all are reserving for the dems here.  

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I know you guys hate both sidsin', but there is something deep down in me that suspects if Trump and a GOP controlled congress did this they wouldn't be getting the excuses you all are reserving for the dems here.  

I wouldn't say that I'm "making excuses" for everyone. Literally just a couple of posts ago, with respect to the administration's position, I said that there were no good options on the table here and, with that comment, it's implied that choosing the least bad option still comes with criticism and complaints. That's part of being President of the United States - you have to take a lot of slings and arrows.

I take this particular issue seriously because it's one of the rare times where something comes up on the political board that intersects a bit with the work I do professionally. I figured that we were having a discussion about the contours of why this is happening and the issues that were facing the administration, as well as members of both parties in Congress, and why they approached it the way they did. If you want to have that discussion, great, but I don't see the "media bias" angle you are advancing. And to your original post, I don't see how this particular action, in totality, suggests that the GOP is the "party of the working man" given that only 6 of it's 50 in the Senate were willing to back workers on this issue.

Regarding Trump, I would say that if he were still President, this probably plays out the same way it did with Biden. Probably every President in recent memory, tbh. And I'm guessing if we had President Ewsieg in charge, he'd probably not go with the option that tanks the American economy as well, despite the moral implications involved. It was a tough decision, but rail traffic in the United States is vital to keeping the American economy moving. Without it, there would be a lot of pain and suffering as well.

[ewsieg]

18 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Regarding Trump, I would say that if he were still President, this probably plays out the same way it did with Biden. Probably every President in recent memory, tbh.

I want what you're smoking.  Trump would have been the evil man that doesn't even want workers to get paid a few sick days.  Big corporation, what do you expect from the GOP, amirite?

18 hours ago, mtutiger said:

And I'm guessing if we had President Ewsieg in charge, he'd probably not go with the option that tanks the American economy as well, despite the moral implications involved.

I'd like to think that I would have put more pressure on the railroads, including publicly if I had to.  In the end, you may be right, that's where it might have come down to.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I want what you're smoking.  Trump would have been the evil man that doesn't even want workers to get paid a few sick days.  Big corporation, what do you expect from the GOP, amirite?

I don't know, nor can control, what others say or do. Nor do I particularly care, I'll leave you to dabble in hypotheticals. Just don't see how it plays out differently under Trump, or any other administration for that matter.

5 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I'd like to think that I would have put more pressure on the railroads, including publicly if I had to.  In the end, you may be right, that's where it might have come down to.

Can you be more specific about what you would do to "put more pressure" on the railroads? What would you say publicly to compel them to move off of their terms?

It's a leverage problem; people barely think about the railroad industry and, for years, it was always funny to hear people muse about how "railroad are dying".... they are very much not dead and are vitally critical for getting goods from point A to point B. The supply chain issues of the past couple of years are just a taste of what it is like when that cog in the economy isn't operating at 100%, the cog just not working for days at a time would be devastating to the American economy. It would impact goods getting to shelves at the grocery stores, commodities such as metals and lumber getting to manufacturers (which would likely negatively impact a lot of blue collar union workers in other industries, I might add), coal from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming or other areas getting to coal power plants that are still in use (without which may lead to pressure on our energy grid). Those are just a few examples of the second-order effects that would come from even just a few days without the rails operating, it would touch just about every American in one way or another.

So again, that's the decision: that or enforcing the deal. And I'm guessing just about everyone in that position, including Presidents Ewsieg or MTU or whoever, enforces the deal. That doesn't mean that railroad workers shouldn't get sick time or that Presidents shouldn't expect criticism for whatever decision they make when given two bad choices, but any logical person in that position is going to take the option that doesn't bring about economic catastrophe. 

[romad1]

The guy who rejects the US Constitution is going to be for worker's rights?  if it impacts his billionaire friend's balance sheets? 

Edited December 6, 2022 by romad1

[ewsieg]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

The guy who rejects the US Constitution is going to be for worker's rights?  if it impacts his billionaire friend's balance sheets? 

What are you talking about?  I said Trump would have done the same thing that Biden did here...which was nothing for the workers.  I firmly believe, dabbling in hypotheticals, he would have been roasted by the unions, the left, and the media for doing exactly what Biden did here. 

 

[1984Echoes]

25 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

What are you talking about?  I said Trump would have done the same thing that Biden did here...which was nothing for the workers.  I firmly believe, dabbling in hypotheticals, he would have been roasted by the unions, the left, and the media for doing exactly what Biden did here. 

 

Quite possibly.

But there would be a very simple reason for that and it would NOT be partisan politics:

It would be what's called: "Track Record."

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, ewsieg said:

What are you talking about?  I said Trump would have done the same thing that Biden did here...which was nothing for the workers.  

You do concede the point that a shutdown of freight rail traffic would have harmed a lot of workers in the broader economy, correct?

[mtutiger]

 

[Motown Bombers]

Read the election day turnout in Dekalb is pretty good so even the election day turnout isn't looking great for Walker. 

[mtutiger]

Gonna be an early night in Georgia

[Motown Bombers]

I've seen enough.

[Motown Bombers]

This is looking like it could be a Warnock +5 win.

[CMRivdogs]

Nate's arrow seems conservative

[oblong]

My twitter folks seem to think it’s going to be pretty close and not a blowout. Relatively speaking I guess considering it’s a runoff which is a result of a close election so a term like blowout needs context. 

[Tiger337]

6 hours ago, ewsieg said:

What are you talking about?  I said Trump would have done the same thing that Biden did here...which was nothing for the workers.  I firmly believe, dabbling in hypotheticals, he would have been roasted by the unions, the left, and the media for doing exactly what Biden did here. 

 

No doubt about it.  ANYTHING a Republican President does is going to be roasted ny the left.  The reverse is also true.  

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, oblong said:

My twitter folks seem to think it’s going to be pretty close and not a blowout. Relatively speaking I guess considering it’s a runoff which is a result of a close election so a term like blowout needs context. 

Need to see more of Atlanta...

[Motor City Sonics]

11 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

No doubt about it.  ANYTHING a Republican President does is going to be roasted ny the left.  The reverse is also true.  

Anything?   I thought Trump reverse sentences on non-violent drug offenders was a great thing - and long overdue and something a Democrat would never get away with (THEY'RE SOFT ON CRIME). 

[Motown Bombers]

Walker his holding his margin in the rurals but he needed to outperform since he lost the general. Warnock appears to be outperforming Atlanta.