mtutiger Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Yeah, Sizemore was better. But our standards were higher back then. Now we keep these AA players around. Cheap labor. I'm sort of speechless on this one. Torkelson hasn't had a good start to his career, but it seems a little early to declare that he'll be another Scott Sizemore. Particularly given the age discrepency for when they reached the majors (ie. Tork debuted almost three years younger) and the fact that Sizemore never had the high ceiling and tools that Tork has. I understand that all fanbases do this to an extent, but it's pathetic how fast people appear to be declaring him a bust. Maybe he'll struggle some more, maybe he needs to go down for a spell, but he's a 22 year old kid with a little over a year of professional experience. At least give it some time before going there. Edited June 14, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 I firmly believe that if Greene had been healthy and started the season in Detroit it would have been a plus for he as well as Tork. These guys have been the talk of Motown for more than a year now and they have spent a fair amount of time together in the minors. I think they would have been a great support for each other when one or the other struggled. I am anxious to see if Tork relaxes a bit when Greene arrives as the spotlight will be on Riley at that point. Just me thinking out loud… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I'm sort of speechless on this one. Torkelson hasn't had a good start to his career, but it seems a little early to declare that he'll be another Scott Sizemore. Particularly given the age discrepency for when they reached the majors (ie. Tork debuted almost three years younger) and the fact that Sizemore never had the high ceiling and tools that Tork has. I understand that all fanbases do this to an extent, but it's pathetic how fast people appear to be declaring him a bust. Maybe he'll struggle some more, maybe he needs to go down for a spell, but he's a 22 year old kid with a little over a year of professional experience. At least give it some time before going there. You compared Clemens to two of the best players in baseball because they also started out slow. I say he's closer to Sizemore than he is to Judge or Trout. Jeezzz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: You compared Clemens to two of the best players in baseball because they also started out slow. I say he's closer to Sizemore than he is to Judge or Trout. Jeezzz... First off, I didn't compare Kody Clemens to anyone, I'm talking about Torkelson. Second of all, my point was that those two players, like Torkelson, also had pretty anemic starts to their careers as well. I'm not saying that is even his peak, the goal wasn't to compare Tork to either of those players but to illustrate that there are cases where guys who are stars struggle when they first get to the bigs. I just think that declaring Tork to be another Scott Sizemore is kinda ridiculous at this point, after only 175 ABs. At least give it a year before going there. Edited June 14, 2022 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Oh, never mind. You were talking about Tork. I agree, he may be OK. The jury is still out on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 51 minutes ago, mtutiger said: OK, nvm, he's gonna be Scott Sizemore. Might as well just DFA him now. Christ Almighty... How about Jarred Kellenic and Jo Adell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Just now, Sports_Freak said: Oh, never mind. You were talking about Tork. I agree, he may be OK. The jury is still out on him. The jury is out on every rookie ever. On the positive side, Mike Trout batted .220/.281/.390 his first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: How about Jarred Kellenic and Jo Adell? Same answer. Same for Joey Bart as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 The pandemic killed player development on a huge scale. That was right when we were supposed to be seeing the fruits of our tanking. It's great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Same answer. Same for Joey Bart as well. Riley Greene is an injury prone bust. 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: The jury is out on every rookie ever. On the positive side, Mike Trout batted .220/.281/.390 his first year. At age 19. At age 20 he slashed .326/.399/.564 with 30 bombs, 49 steals (only 5 CS!), a 168 OPS+, and 10.5 WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, kdog said: The front office killed player development on a huge scale. 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 minute ago, chasfh said: At age 19. At age 20 he slashed .326/.399/.564 with 30 bombs, 49 steals (only 5 CS!), a 168 OPS+, and 10.5 WAR. But also 1,326 monor league PA versus 431 for Torkelson. I am really not comparing the two though. I am just saying that most great prospects get off to slow starts...and some of them never get going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, 1776 said: I firmly believe that if Greene had been healthy and started the season in Detroit it would have been a plus for he as well as Tork I've had that thought that myself. Especially if Greene had come up and hit for average with little power initially, which I think would have been and is likely. It would have taken pressure off Torkelson to try to bomb the ball, which the team power slump only makes worse. Hit first. Worry about power later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Maybe this has already been posted because I can't remember where I saw it. Mike Schmidt batted ,196 his first full season in the bigs... https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schmimi01.shtml I also think the fact that everyone is struggling has put extra pressure on Tork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: But also 1,326 monor league PA versus 431 for Torkelson. I am really not comparing the two though. I am just saying that most great prospects get off to slow starts...and some of them never get going. Wow, I did not realize Trout had so many minor league ABs by age 19! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Here are the slowest career starts for Hall of Famers during the post-WWII era, based strictly on OPS (OPS+ is not available to this query). Vast majority of these guys went into the Hall specifically for their hitting. I had to blur out a few guys who went into the Hall for their managing. The benchmark I used was first 81 career games, minimum 250 plate appearances. Look who's at the "top" of this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) 1 and 4 aren't showing. Otherwise, I see George Brett at #2 with a .550 OPS through 81 games and Alan Trammel at #6 with a .613 OPS, if you were looking for noteworthy names that might mean something to us.... Ah, the blurred guys... so 1 and 4 are Connie Mack and/ or John McGraw and/ or similar... Edited June 14, 2022 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: 1 and 4 aren't showing. Otherwise, I see George Brett at #2 with a .550 OPS through 81 games and Alan Trammel at #6 with a .613 OPS, if you were looking for noteworthy names that might mean something to us.... Ah, the blurred guys... so 1 and 4 are Connie Mack and/ or John McGraw and/ or similar... Sparky Anderson and Bobby Cox. #21 is Whitey Herzog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Just now, chasfh said: Sparky Anderson and ... Hmmm... That one sounds familiar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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