6/15 1:10 White Sox @ Tigers

[Dtrain72]

Reading all of this analytical/what should the team do stuff from you guys is nice...but you're all forgetting the owner of the team may very well be functionally brain dead.  This is the same guy that STILL hasnt fullfilled his big promises about District Detroit.  Chris Illitch may very well either be a grifter, or a lucky idiot who was borm on homeplate.  None of these things you guys are pondering will happen....Chris is an out of touch, clueless, barnacle on the balls of Detroit and the sports teams he owns, and barnacles dont go away, or dont actually think.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Dtrain72

[Tiger337]

58 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Perhaps Hinch is going all April/May 2006 JIm Leyland on the team and tearing everybody a new one?

It's a player's only meeting.  Hopefully Tarik Skubal is tearing everyone a new one.  

[mtutiger]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

It's a player's only meeting.  Hopefully Tarik Skubal is tearing everyone a new one.  

I don't want Tarik Skubal tearing anything lol

[Dtrain72]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's a player's only meeting.  Hopefully Tarik Skubal is tearing everyone a new one.  

Allegedely Miggy refused to talk, and Haase was the, ahem, "voice of leadership", during the, ahem, "team meeting"...anyone elae want to kick Chris and Al in the nuts as badly as I do?

Edited June 15, 2022 by Dtrain72

[kdog]

More Hinch: "This is unacceptable. We are better than this. We have not lived up to the standard that we expect. 

"We're all accountable -- players, coaches, manager, front office, everybody -- because it's been below par."

[gehringer_2]

24 minutes ago, chasfh said:

They've already started the process of remaking scouting and development, which has accelerated over the past year. Garko came out of the Dodgers system, and several other people have been hired as well out of LA.

I think that whole thing is going in the right direction, but since it's really only happened over the past year, none of those changes would be impacting the on-the-field product right now.

that's the frustration isn't it? If you are the owner do you want to throw away the work done to this point? But why are they getting there only now instead of 4 yrs ago? I suppose to some degree you sometimes have to wait for people you want to become available or negotiate over time to get people that are available, but this org has been glacial.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

that's the frustration isn't it? If you are the owner do you want to throw away the work done to this point? But why are they getting there only now instead of 4 yrs ago? I suppose to some degree you sometimes have to wait for people you want to become available or negotiate over time to get people that are available, but this org has been glacial.

Self-preservation on the part of Al?

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Self-preservation on the part of Al?

People love to argue bad intent, but that is pretty silly really. Ilitch wants to win, Avila wants to win. They may or may not know how to get there but arguments that their motivation is suspect is just venting. Everyone in a losing org should be under pressure - that is part of Ilitch's job.

Edited June 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

30 minutes ago, Dtrain72 said:

Allegedely Miggy refused to talk, and Haase was the, ahem, "voice of leadership", during the, ahem, "team meeting"...anyone elae want to kick Chris and Al in the nuts as badly as I do?

That wouldn't surprise me to hear that about Miggy. He was never a captain-rally-the-troops-type guy. He was always a just-show-up-and-rake guy.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

People love to argue bad intent, but that is pretty silly really. Ilitch wants to win, Avila wants to win. They may or may not know how to get there but arguments that their motivation is suspect is just venting. Everyone in a losing org should be under pressure - that is part of Ilitch's job.

Wanting to win is the bare minimum requirement for owning or running a sports team. No one doesn't want to win. Winning is nice, and it beats the alternative.

The issue at hand is, how motivated someone in their position is to move heaven and earth to make that winning happen, and damn the cost. I think there's a fair case to be made that Chris Ilitch, at least, does not score at the top of the chain on that attribute.

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

People love to argue bad intent, but that is pretty silly really. Ilitch wants to win, Avila wants to win. They may or may not know how to get there but arguments that their motivation is suspect is just venting. Everyone in a losing org should be under pressure - that is part of Ilitch's job.

william clay ford wanted to win too.

how many more years until Al "Russ Thomas" Avila gets canned?  

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Quick back-of-the-napkin comparison:

It's not quite a yawning gap, but yeah, I'd say that Tampa is winning this one so far this year.

Don’t forget the loss of a draft pick which, since we are still rebuilding, is now important again, the age differences and years of control and oh ya the Huge premium we are paying. 

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think there's a fair case to be made that Chris Ilitch, at least, does not score at the top of the chain on that attribute.

OTOH, he certainly does score high enough that the Tigers should not be where they are. IIRC the Tigers ponied up the 3rd most off-season money in the majors, they've hired a top line manager, they've spent freely on equipment and technology through their system. I haven't got a clue what's in the water in the Tiger clubhouse that's turned all the bats to noodles, but it's not for lack of an owner willing to provide at least reasonable resourcing. That's a much easier argument to make than to support objectively. I'd certainly entertain arguments about whether or not it's sufficient to win a WS, but not that it's not sufficient to put a respectable team on the field.

I don't find arguments attempting to draw inferences between the Sports teams and City of Detroit development persuasive. Hard to imagine two more different worlds. I don't have any particular affinity for Chris Ilitch but when a team under-performs the projections made by every unbiased statistical forecasting service, laying that at the owner's door seems illogical.

Edited June 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

14 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That wouldn't surprise me to hear that about Miggy. He was never a captain-rally-the-troops-type guy. He was always a just-show-up-and-rake guy.

I remember when Octavio Dotel called him out on his leadership. Even during the good ole days, I just assumed people like Verlander were the real leaders of the team.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

william clay ford wanted to win too.

how many more years until Al "Russ Thomas" Avila gets canned?  

Ahh - well that is an interesting one. I'm not sure he did value winning as much as some other objectives that he managed his team to meet, but that's history.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I remember when Octavio Dotel called him out on his leadership. Even during the good ole days, I just assumed people like Verlander were the real leaders of the team.

Lots of people assume that the best players must by default be the best leaders and mentors, but some great players just aren't wired that way, and others are too much of a clubhouse cancer for anyone to listen to them.

[casimir]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

You know the minute they cut Robbie Grossman he goes to a contender and produces at an MVP rate.

Or Schoop.  Or Candelario.  Or Haase.  Or Wil…. Ok, that one is a bit much.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Crazy Cat Gentleman said:

Haha, I finally had a free moment to check in on the game. Hoo boy.

 

2 hours ago, Crazy Cat Gentleman said:

Harold and Kody "got" to pitch? Ouch.

Good to see Harold lowering his ERA, though. 🙄

See what you missed?  I wonder, was the Clemens family at the game?  That could have been the topic of conversation for the TV crew.  Probably into the next series, too.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

If Tork goes down, H. Castro would be the best bet at 1st. He's our best bat at the moment. But Tork isn't going anywhere.

How far down the line does it have to go for CastroH to be the token Tiger all star?  And would he enter the game as a position player or a pitcher?

[casimir]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Perhaps Hinch is going all April/May 2006 JIm Leyland on the team and tearing everybody a new one?

I was betting it was Avila, but you might be righter.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

If they do fire Al (I know, they probably wont), they need to figure out a way to do it while keeping some of the people they brought in during the offseason from other organizations (notably the Dodgers). Perhaps even look to the Dodgers for his replacement to bring continuity.

But I don't trust that will happen, so why bother speculating lol

Honest question, do we know they brought in the right people from other organizations?

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

Honest question, do we know they brought in the right people from other organizations?

well of course not, that's the rub. You don't really know until enough time has passed to determine if they have performed well or not. The talent pipeline of a major league baseball team is about 6 yrs deep. I don't know how much you can figure out about anything in baseball on a short term basis.

Edited June 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

well of course not, that's the rub. You don't really know until enough time has passed to determine if they have performed well or not. The talent pipeline of a major league baseball team is about 6 yrs deep. I don't know how much you can figure out about anything in baseball on a short term basis.

I understand giving a pass to those that haven’t been there long.  But I think it’s also fair to question if they’ve really hired well given some of the other missteps.

I guess at the very least they have to keep some people around just to show the new regime where the free pizzas and bathrooms are.

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well of course not, that's the rub. You don't really know until enough time has passed to determine if they have performed well or not. The talent pipeline of a major league baseball team is about 6 yrs deep. I don't know how much you can figure out about anything in baseball on a short term basis.

I wonder how much improved play among stalled prospects (Wenceel Perez comes to mind) could reflect on new hires or whether that is just an age thing.

[sabretooth]

43 minutes ago, buddha said:

william clay ford wanted to win too.

how many more years until Al "Russ Thomas" Avila gets canned?  

Great analogy.