oblong Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 She’s a keeper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, oblong said: Yes. And I always thought if Haley got the GOP nomination she'd be in a better position than Trump to defeat Biden. But she's taken some strong stances on abortion and I've read she had her children through IVF so this will be an interesting weave for her to work around. It could all backfire spectactularly or she could pick and choose and carefully lay out what is and isn't appropriate. But rulings like this don't help the "Well they won't do that will they?" mantra because... yes they will and yes they have. You can no longer say that about anything once you "leave it to the states". And coming up with a federal restriction/allowance is not "leaving it to the states". Totally, it's a huge issue for Haley.... so much so that she's already walking back what she said the other day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: Also, do these people just not read or think through the implications of these bills they sign onto? Thinking is hard. Easier to sub-contract that stuff to the Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, or just Fox. Edited February 23 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Totally, it's a huge issue for Haley.... so much so that she's already walking back what she said the other day. Someone on twitter said, to the effect, The Dog caught the car, doesn't like the taste of the bumper, and is trying to break free. Abortion is the classic case of having a binary and ironclad belief in something not being sustainable. The logic of the Catholic Church for example is sound... but to a fault. Saying you are against abortion in all cases because it's a life can be honorable in a vaccum but it then leads to these kinds of rulings and if someone truly believes that it is taking a life and that life begins at conception... then how can you argue any other way? That's the logical extension. But the realitiy many pro lifers can't admit to is that it begins somewhere in between conception and birth but they insist on drawing a line. But a GOP pro choice candidate, of any kind, is a non starter at the national level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I'm trying to reconcile how the party of small government wants to ban recreational sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I'm trying to reconcile how the party of small government wants to ban recreational sex. I was thinking about small government crap when I read Florida wants to ban social media for kids 16 and under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 The party of deregulation wants to regulate your genitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 17 minutes ago, oblong said: But a GOP pro choice candidate, of any kind, is a non starter at the national level. Rest assured, now that Trump has released a statement saying he's in favor of IVF, the media will likely do their part and fashion him a moderate lol Edited February 23 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Rest assured, now that Trump has released a statement saying he's in favor of IVF, the media will likely do their part and fashion him a moderate lol Now the rest of the party has permission to support IVF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smr-nj Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: The party of deregulation wants to regulate your genitals. Let’s all just admit to the fact that it’s a woman’s body that they’re looking to control. All aspects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Now the rest of the party has permission to support IVF. They were already kinda going in that direction. It really shouldn't matter though.... they should be made to reap the wind considering they are the ones who sewed all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I'm trying to reconcile how the party of small government wants to ban recreational sex. It actually a good question, but the cross over I think is Racially Pure Patriarchy. The ascendancy of the tribally empowered white male is threatened by female power (sex) and circumscribed by the power of the organized masses (democracy and majority government of the great unwashed). That mindset lets you be puritanical and anti government. Edited February 23 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Rest assured, now that Trump has released a statement saying he's in favor of IVF, the media will likely do their part and fashion him a moderate lol He likes to talk tough, but his actions were often moderate compared to many on the right far right wing. Tariffs, bailing out farmers, stimulus checks (he wanted to give people even more in the fall), massive debt. He is a populist demagogue psychopath who will say and do anything to get himself re-elected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: He likes to talk tough, but his actions were often moderate compared to many on the right far right wing. Tariffs, bailing out farmers, stimulus checks (he wanted to give people even more in the fall), massive debt. He is a populist demagogue psychopath who will say and do anything to get himself re-elected. He's also the one who appointed the judges who took out Roe and made this subsequent ruling possible. He's no moderate on *this* issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: He's also the one who appointed the judges who took out Roe and made this subsequent ruling possible. He's no moderate on *this* issue. He's doing exactly what his handlers and overlords tell him. Both domestic and foreign 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, mtutiger said: He's also the one who appointed the judges who took out Roe and made this subsequent ruling possible. He's no moderate on *this* issue. I don't think he cares about abortion one way or the other. He has most likely ordered many of them in his lifetime. He appointed judges that will support big business interests and protect the wealthy. That's his conservative side I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't think he cares about abortion one way or the other. He has most likely ordered many of them in his lifetime. He appointed judges that will support big business interests and protect the wealthy. That's his conservative side I guess. I'm not talking about what he personally cares about, I honestly don't even care whether he cares about it - I'm talking about how he projects himself as a candidate and how he governed as President. Because that's ultimately what impacts the people. And on that score, he's no moderate on *this* issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 My biggest fear about this moment. Is that people will sweep this New Apostolic Reformation/Seven Mountains stuff under the carpet in time for November and these lunatics will be empowered after an albeit unlikely Trump or Haley win. These chuckleheads think they have our nuts in a vice and just need a little bit more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 22 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I'm not talking about what he personally cares about, I honestly don't even care whether he cares about it - I'm talking about how he projects himself as a candidate and how he governed as President. Because that's ultimately what impacts the people. And on that score, he's no moderate on *this* issue. I think he has been more moderate than most Republicans (which isn't saying much) on the abortion issue. He has belittled people like DeSantis on the abortion issue on multiple occasions. I also don't believe the list of conservative judges Trump's handlers gave him was designed to overturn Roe vs Wade. It was designed to protect big business interests and the wealthy, same as the tax cuts. Edited February 23 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think he has been more moderate than most Republicans (which isn't saying much) on the abortion issue. He has belittled people like DeSantis on the abortion issue on multiple occasions. I also don't believe the list of conservative judges Trump's handlers gave him was designed to overturn Roe vs Wade. It was designed to protect big business interests and the wealthy, same as the tax cuts. and yet they overturned Roe vs Wade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, romad1 said: and yet they overturned Roe vs Wade. To appease the cult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think he has been more moderate than most Republicans (which isn't saying much) on the abortion issue. Which means he's pretty extreme compared to the actual middle of the electorate on the issue. And again, his actions helped lead to Dobbs, which was cited in the Alabama ruling. 10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I also don't believe the list of conservative judges Trump's handlers gave him was designed to overturn Roe vs Wade. It was designed to protect big business interests and the wealthy, same as the tax cuts. We're going to have to disagree here. Leonard Leo was the man who curated the list, and everything I understand about the man suggests that he wanted Roe overturned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: To appease the cult. it doesn't matter if the kleptocrats bring in theocracy so they can be richer, either way its tyranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, romad1 said: it doesn't matter if the kleptocrats bring in theocracy so they can be richer, either way its tyranny. Seriously. Who cares what issue was higher on the priority list or who cares about "intentions" or whatnot, ultimately it's the results that we all have to live with. And it's the results upon which Trump should (and ultimately will) be judged on this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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