Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, romad1 said: it doesn't matter if the kleptocrats bring in theocracy so they can be richer, either way its tyranny. Right, they all suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: To appease the cult. That's the problem. The big money interests need the cult because that is were the voters are to keep them in power - they certainly can't run on the popularity of being robber barons. But the robber barons don't care really care about liberty or justice or good schools or even good roads, they will always be insulated against those things by their wealth, so they are perfectly happy to appease the cult in way that are destructive to the overall society. So their motivation is immaterial to whether the damage done is real. Back in the day - in the post WWII era, there was a concept that had some currency that the rich should be interested in good public policy because to invert the phrase - "what was good for the US was good for GM", that in a heathy society business ultimately does better. But that has broken down because we have a capital class today that doesn't even really care if their businesses to well, as long as they can squeeze all the value out out them, then buy up and squeeze another one dry. Any remaining idea of 'Noblesse Oblige" is dead in America today. Trump is a great fit in that milieu since he cares about nothing but himself anyway. Edited February 23 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Which means he's pretty extreme compared to the actual middle of the electorate on the issue. And again, his actions helped lead to Dobbs, which was cited in the Alabama ruling. We're going to have to disagree here. Leonard Leo was the man who curated the list, and everything I understand about the man suggests that he wanted Roe overturned. I won't win any politica debate against you because I don't know anything! Leonard Leo is a cool name though. I just don't view Trump as conservative or moderate or anything really. Everything is about him. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: That's the problem. The big money interests need the cult because that is were the voters are to keep them in power - they certainly can't run on the popularity of being robber barons. But the robber barons don't care really care about liberty or justice or good schools or even good roads, they will always be insulated against those things by their wealth, so they are perfectly happy to appease the cult in way that are destructive to the overall society. So their motivation is immaterial to whether the damage done is real. Back in the day - in the post WWII era, there was a concept that had some currency that the rich should be interested in good public policy because to invert the phrase - "what was good for the US was good for GM", that in a heathy society business ultimately does better. But that has broken down because we have a capital class today that doesn't even really care if their businesses to well, as long as they can squeeze all the value out out them, then buy up and squeeze another one dry. I think the only motivation the super wealthy has is to keep people just educated and prosperous enough so they won't commit too many crimes against the wealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Seriously. Who cares what issue was higher on the priority list or who cares about "intentions" or whatnot, ultimately it's the results that we all have to live with. And it's the results upon which Trump should (and ultimately will) be judged on this. Sure, but if we are going to analyze Trump's presidency (which is a pretty absurd idea in the first place), intentions do matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I just don't view Trump as conservative or moderate or anything really. Everything is about him. That is all. The thing about Presidents are that they are a reflection of the people who staff their administration and whom they rely on for counsel on various things, including SCOTUS picks. I wouldn't argue that, personally, Trump doesn't have many deeply held beliefs, but ultimately whether he does or doesn't isn't really germane when we are talking the actions that his administration took. Ultimately Presidents are judged on those actions because ultimately they are what we, the people, have to live with. The good and the bad. The fact is that Trump hugged the evangelical and religious right *hard* in his time in office. And Dobbs, and this subsequent ruling in Alabama, is a byproduct of that relationship. And we are living with the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Which means he's pretty extreme compared to the actual middle of the electorate on the issue. And again, his actions helped lead to Dobbs, which was cited in the Alabama ruling. We're going to have to disagree here. Leonard Leo was the man who curated the list, and everything I understand about the man suggests that he wanted Roe overturned. Yes, Leonard Leo drove that like the Bene Gesserit trying to bring about the Kwisatz Haderach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I won't win any politica debate against you because I don't know anything! Leonard Leo is a cool name though. I would recommend reading about him, because he's an extremely influential figure from his time in office and his presence (which Trump leaned on) was more Roe focused than you suggest IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Leonard Leo sounds like an infield prospect who shows up on prospect lists, but never amounts to anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, mtutiger said: The thing about Presidents are that they are a reflection of the people who staff their administration and whom they rely on for counsel on various things, including SCOTUS picks. I wouldn't argue that, personally, Trump doesn't have many deeply held beliefs, but ultimately whether he does or doesn't isn't really germane when we are talking the actions that his administration took. Ultimately Presidents are judged on those actions because ultimately they are what we, the people, have to live with. The good and the bad. The fact is that Trump hugged the evangelical and religious right *hard* in his time in office. And Dobbs, and this subsequent ruling in Alabama, is a byproduct of that relationship. And we are living with the consequences. Probably true. I just will consider never Trump to be anyone worth analyzing. I don't analyze pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 4 hours ago, smr-nj said: Let’s all just admit to the fact that it’s a woman’s body that they’re looking to control. All aspects. Oh, well, that goes without saying. Thank you for saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Right, they all suck. If by "they all suck" you mean "all politicians suck, full stop", then I wouldn't agree with that blanket statement at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: If by "they all suck" you mean "all politicians suck, full stop", then I wouldn't agree with that blanket statement at all. I meant the conservative ones. The liberal ones suck too, but not nearly as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Leonard Leo sounds like an infield prospect who shows up on prospect lists, but never amounts to anything. Um........Who is Shannon Penn ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I think he has been more moderate than most Republicans (which isn't saying much) on the abortion issue. .... It was designed to protect big business interests and the wealthy, same as the tax cuts. BS. I'm calling BS on this. He specifically stated he was going to appoint Justices to overturn Roe v Wade. Amy Coney Barrett was appointed to protect big business? BS. She was SPECIFICALLY appointed to overturn Roe v Wade. You have a big fail here Lee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Do not! and I mean DO ****ING NOT ever do a "lesser of two evils" with Biden and Trump. Trump is so broken and crooked and evil. He's Gollum without the redemption arc of destroying the Ring. Biden is merely an old man who makes gaffes. Biden will admit his failings and promise to do better. Trump will punish you for pointing them out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 14 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: BS. I'm calling BS on this. He specifically stated he was going to appoint Justices to overturn Roe v Wade. Amy Coney Barrett was appointed to protect big business? BS. She was SPECIFICALLY appointed to overturn Roe v Wade. You have a big fail here Lee... I MAY BE WRONG BUT I DONT BS. I HAVE NO REASON TO MAKE THE BIGGEST TURD IN US HISTORY LOOK POSITIVE IN ANY WAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 13 minutes ago, romad1 said: Do not! and I mean DO ****ING NOT ever do a "lesser of two evils" with Biden and Trump. Trump is so broken and crooked and evil. He's Gollum without the redemption arc of destroying the Ring. Biden is merely an old man who makes gaffes. Biden will admit his failings and promise to do better. Trump will punish you for pointing them out. DUMP IS THE BIGGEST TURD IN US HISTORY Playing with font. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 😄 Awesome post Lee!!! But... Seriously... He campaigned on it. He said it 1,000 times if he said it once: "I'm going to overturn Roe v Wade. I'm going to appoint Supremes who will overturn Roe v Wade." This was NOT a by-product of being pro-business. He targeted this specifically. And not to cater to MAGA or big business types... He campaigned on this specifically for the Evangelical vote. And he was going to keep his promise to them, which he did, by putting in Supremes to... wait for it: Specifically, overturn Roe v Wade. Evangelicals were very pleased with all his Supreme Justice selections and the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 42 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: 😄 Awesome post Lee!!! But... Seriously... He campaigned on it. He said it 1,000 times if he said it once: "I'm going to overturn Roe v Wade. I'm going to appoint Supremes who will overturn Roe v Wade." This was NOT a by-product of being pro-business. He targeted this specifically. And not to cater to MAGA or big business types... He campaigned on this specifically for the Evangelical vote. And he was going to keep his promise to them, which he did, by putting in Supremes to... wait for it: Specifically, overturn Roe v Wade. Evangelicals were very pleased with all his Supreme Justice selections and the result. I wonder how many he's paid for (or had someone pay for him). Bet it's more than 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 9 hours ago, romad1 said: Do not! and I mean DO ****ING NOT ever do a "lesser of two evils" with Biden and Trump. Trump is so broken and crooked and evil. He's Gollum without the redemption arc of destroying the Ring. Biden is merely an old man who makes gaffes. Biden will admit his failings and promise to do better. Trump will punish you for pointing them out. The biggest people between the two is in the people working behind each. They were a lot closer 2017-21 than 2025-29 would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Potential 2024 MI senate matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaceyLou Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 20 hours ago, mtutiger said: Seeing a lot of these sorts of comments from GOP lawmakers... but they really should not have been shocked. In fact, it was predictable as hell that stuff taken for granted by the general public would eventually be impacted by the decision. What's next, contraception? Contraception has always been a target... it's only just now becoming okay for them to say it out loud (see posts from The Heritage Foundation and comments from the past couple of days). Suddenly people are claiming to be concerned about all of the side effects, as if they care about the health and well-being of women. I'm pretty sure they want to get rid of voting rights for women, too-I've already seen rumblings in extremist groups. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 Yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.