2024 Presidential Election thread

[CMRivdogs]

 

[Tigeraholic1]

Never understood why helping more people have access to health insurance would hurt anyone. It was the oh lazy people get insurance now. Well now lazy people have to pay in some way now. Before the hospitals got burdened with the debt which got handed off to the people paying insurance premiums.

[oblong]

15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

It was funny, but also I suppose the only was it could happen. It was Obama's existence where he was that was radical, but not much about the man was(is) - very conventional in his economic views (too much so for me!), almost had to be dragged along to get to LGBT rights.  But even without the man being any kind of radical, the backlash to his existence where he was laid bare an amount of race animosity and white panic that had been relatively suppressed for a few decades, and now fanned in to full fury by Trumpism, is further than ever from subsiding.

I always thought the way the LGBTQ thing played out, especially gay marriage, was arranged.  The legend is Biden says it publicly and backs Obama in a corner.  I view that as a good cop/bad cop situation. Sort of like forcing someone else, with little risk since he's VP,  to make the decision for him.

 

[oblong]

12 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Never understood why helping more people have access to health insurance would hurt anyone. It was the oh lazy people get insurance now. Well now lazy people have to pay in some way now. Before the hospitals got burdened with the debt which got handed off to the people paying insurance premiums.

It's also telling that the GOP never "got rid of it" when they could even though they said they would... 

Also, you described yourself as hard right.  I wouldn't have guessed that.  I detected right leanings but not something I'd call "hard right".  I appreciate the discourse and if that's indeed true it's good to have that perspective intelligently represented here. Given what I know about you from here I get the sense you represent a significant portion of our electorate in terms of who wins and loses.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Never understood why helping more people have access to health insurance would hurt anyone. It was the oh lazy people get insurance now. Well now lazy people have to pay in some way now. Before the hospitals got burdened with the debt which got handed off to the people paying insurance premiums.

Some people simply cannot abide sharing equality with “lazy” people. After all, if everyone ends up equal no matter what, what’s the point of working hard to get what you can?

[oblong]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Some people simply cannot abide sharing equality with “lazy” people. After all, if everyone ends up equal no matter what, what’s the point of working hard to get what you can?

and may of those people who don't want to share don't grasp that even though they paid into social security and medicare they often get back much more than they put in.  And that's a good thing.  

 

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, oblong said:

and may of those people who don't want to share don't grasp that even though they paid into social security and medicare they often get back much more than they put in.  And that's a good thing.  

 

If they even live to use them. If they don’t, they paid in for nothing, except for meager survivor benefits, if they even apply.

By the way, here’s a tip: as soon as you qualify for 100% Social Security benefits, take it. Do not wait until age 72 or whenever to get 125% benefits or whatever it is. That’s an enticement to get you to delay and gives the government five more years to hope you don’t live to take even a penny.

[Tigeraholic1]

54 minutes ago, oblong said:

I always thought the way the LGBTQ thing played out, especially gay marriage, was arranged.  The legend is Biden says it publicly and backs Obama in a corner.  I view that as a good cop/bad cop situation. Sort of like forcing someone else, with little risk since he's VP,  to make the decision for him.

 

I used to feal like a normal kind of middle of the road guy. I am pro life (unless the mother is in danger or a number of other very reasonable situations that should be allowed for abortion). Now if you have these beliefs you are considered an extremist. I am a Christian, this gets mocked and ridiculed openly now (quite often on this board). I send my kids to a Lutheran schools, this is despised in society today. I feel as an adult you can do what you want to your own body, no problem. I do feel sex change or body mutilation for a child should not be allowed as kids have no clue who they are until they become adults. Like I said, I used to feel this was pretty common stuff but anymore not so much.

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I used to feal like a normal kind of middle of the road guy. I am pro life (unless the mother is in danger or a number of other very reasonable situations that should be allowed for abortion). Now if you have these beliefs you are considered an extremist. I am a Christian, this gets mocked and ridiculed openly now (quite often on this board). I send my kids to a Lutheran schools, this is despised in society today. I feel as an adult you can do what you want to your own body, no problem. I do feel sex change or body mutilation for a child should not be allowed as kids have no clue who they are until they become adults. Like I said, I used to feel this was pretty common stuff but anymore not so much.

It's really people like you who are the victims in all of this. 

[oblong]

17 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I used to feal like a normal kind of middle of the road guy. I am pro life (unless the mother is in danger or a number of other very reasonable situations that should be allowed for abortion). Now if you have these beliefs you are considered an extremist. I am a Christian, this gets mocked and ridiculed openly now (quite often on this board). I send my kids to a Lutheran schools, this is despised in society today. I feel as an adult you can do what you want to your own body, no problem. I do feel sex change or body mutilation for a child should not be allowed as kids have no clue who they are until they become adults. Like I said, I used to feel this was pretty common stuff but anymore not so much.

I don't consider any of this radical at all.  Many people share the same thoughts.   When you say people mock Christians I don't think you are the target.  

[romad1]

9 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don't consider any of this radical at all.  Many people share the same thoughts.   When you say people mock Christians I don't think you are the target.  

People mock the hypocrites who follow bizonkers White Christo fascism - of Franklin Graham while supporting the least christian politician this country ever elected in Donald Trump

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don't consider any of this radical at all.  Many people share the same thoughts.   When you say people mock Christians I don't think you are the target.  

My thing is that many marginalized groups that are now seeing more acceptance in society have been mocked and demeaned for years. It took until basically the last decade for acceptance for LGBTQ people to start to enter the mainstream. And a lot of that originated with the people ROMAD referenced: hardcore evangelical Christians, particularly those with a microphone such as Franklin Graham or Jerry Falwell....

I kinda wish there was a little more acceptance or understanding of that.

[romad1]

11 minutes ago, romad1 said:

People mock the hypocrites who follow bizonkers White Christo fascism - of Franklin Graham while supporting the least christian politician this country ever elected in Donald Trump

I miswrote that.  I don't think the people who do the mocking are supporting Trump

[romad1]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

My thing is that many marginalized groups that are now seeing more acceptance in society have been mocked and demeaned for years. It took until basically the last decade for acceptance for LGBTQ people to start to enter the mainstream. And a lot of that originated with the people ROMAD referenced: hardcore evangelical Christians, particularly those with a microphone such as Franklin Graham or Jerry Falwell....

I kinda wish there was a little more acceptance or understanding of that.

Make no mistake [many in] the lower socio-economic classes are not happy about the freedom that the previously marginalized people have.   Lots of resentment toward the rich David Geffen types who don't have any progeny to continue the "race memory" of how great it was to grow up on a farm and love the Lord.

Edited May 24, 2023 by romad1

[CMRivdogs]

 

50 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I used to feal like a normal kind of middle of the road guy. I am pro life (unless the mother is in danger or a number of other very reasonable situations that should be allowed for abortion). Now if you have these beliefs you are considered an extremist. I am a Christian, this gets mocked and ridiculed openly now (quite often on this board). I send my kids to a Lutheran schools, this is despised in society today. I feel as an adult you can do what you want to your own body, no problem. I do feel sex change or body mutilation for a child should not be allowed as kids have no clue who they are until they become adults. Like I said, I used to feel this was pretty common stuff but anymore not so much.

Most of what you post is thoughtful and reasonable. Fairly mainline from my meager interaction with folks offline.

I admit "mocking" those I consider Faux Christians. Those who wear their religion on their sleeve while never truly practicing the teachings of Christ. I believe in prayer and meditation but believe that it should be done privately. 

For example, my wife commented last night about a bill in the Texas Legislature that would mandate the posting of the Ten Commandments in public schools. I wondered aloud how many of those commandments are regularly broken by members of the legislator.  

Some of the worst political infighting I've seen have been done by church boards.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I am a Christian, this gets mocked and ridiculed openly now (quite often on this board)

Well.  I would say my view is that any number of professed Christians and Christian Church organizations have earned all the ridicule that they get. To me that is quite a different question than whether Christianity is ridiculous. Always good grounding to remember that no-one came under more criticism by Jesus himself than the 'religious' of his day.

Edited May 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Well.  I would say my view is that any number of professed Christians and Christian Church organizations have earned all the ridicule that they get. To me that is quite a different question than whether Christianity is ridiculous. Always good grounding to remember that no-one came under more criticism by Jesus himself than the 'religious' of his day.

You kinda get to the point: at the micro level, in daily interactions, people of different backgrounds probably play nice way more often than they don't. Even in this day and age. 

At the macro level, the people with the loudest microphones who purport to speak on behalf of any number of causes, Christianity included, are some of the worst possible messengers. And that's where a lot of the "ridicule" comes in.

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

You kinda get to the point: at the micro level, in daily interactions, people of different backgrounds probably play nice way more often than they don't. Even in this day and age. 

At the macro level, the people with the loudest microphones who purport to speak on behalf of any number of causes, Christianity included, are some of the worst possible messengers. And that's where a lot of the "ridicule" comes in.

I think part of it is also that the expectation is unrealistic. Any church will be just as fallable as the people in it so the idea that a church is automatically going to have any claim on inerrancy, whether implicit, or even explicit (I see you RCC!), is an unsound assumption. But of course as human and falible institutions, those exact unrealistic expectations are explicity stoked by many Church hierarchies exactly because like all ambitious humans, they are interested in temporal power and authority (not to mention $$)

Edited May 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I used to feal like a normal kind of middle of the road guy. I am pro life (unless the mother is in danger or a number of other very reasonable situations that should be allowed for abortion). Now if you have these beliefs you are considered an extremist. I am a Christian, this gets mocked and ridiculed openly now (quite often on this board). I send my kids to a Lutheran schools, this is despised in society today. I feel as an adult you can do what you want to your own body, no problem. I do feel sex change or body mutilation for a child should not be allowed as kids have no clue who they are until they become adults. Like I said, I used to feel this was pretty common stuff but anymore not so much.

I don't think your views on these issues as stated in your post are radical.  I also don't think it's ridiculous to be Christian.  Most people I know identify as Christian.  I might mock someone who pushes his or her so called Christians values if I don't think that person actually has Christian values.   

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

People mock the hypocrites who follow bizonkers White Christo fascism - of Franklin Graham while supporting the least christian politician this country ever elected in Donald Trump

This... lots and lots of other hypocrisies, and also:

A backlash against the Moral Majority trying to control other peoples' lives. 

I'll live however the hell I want, get your (generic you, not specific you) bible out of my life. Starting with abortion (hot topic of the day). Don't want one? Don't get one. Quit restricting other peoples' lives/ choices/ medical procedures/ whom they are allowed to love, etc. 

 

[digitalpigsmuggler]

4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

This... lots and lots of other hypocrisies, and also:

A backlash against the Moral Majority trying to control other peoples' lives. 

I'll live however the hell I want, get your (generic you, not specific you) bible out of my life. Starting with abortion (hot topic of the day). Don't want one? Don't get one. Quit restricting other peoples' lives/ choices/ medical procedures/ whom they are allowed to love, etc. 

 

Sense you love abortions so much, how many have you had?

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, chasfh said:

If they even live to use them. If they don’t, they paid in for nothing, except for meager survivor benefits, if they even apply.

By the way, here’s a tip: as soon as you qualify for 100% Social Security benefits, take it. Do not wait until age 72 or whenever to get 125% benefits or whatever it is. That’s an enticement to get you to delay and gives the government five more years to hope you don’t live to take even a penny.

That is one way of looking at it and it's valid. 

In my way of thinking,  If I only live into my 70s, I am not going need my social securtity because I could live off my savings and investments.  I am delaying so I can get the maximun amount in case I live to be 100.   

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, oblong said:

Also, you described yourself as hard right.  I wouldn't have guessed that. 

I would not have guessed it either.  He sounds more right of center or even center sometimes and his voice is appreciated.  

[pfife]

Lol elon totally defecated the bed on Rob Desantises announcement 🤣 

[mtutiger]

It was a literal echo chamber