2024 Presidential Election thread

[CMRivdogs]

2 hours ago, 1776 said:

Where on earth does Trump come up with all these back street lawyers?

They get to go on TV. It's free advertising. And it beats chasing ambulances 

[Tiger337]

I think it is unlikely that we become an authoritarian country if Trump wins.  However, this is the first time in my life I thought it COULD happen which is chilling.  

[1984Echoes]

19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I think it is unlikely that we become an authoritarian country if Trump wins.  However, this is the first time in my life I thought it COULD happen which is chilling.  

We ABSOLUTELY become an authoritarian country if Trump wins.

He will BURN this country DOWN to the ground.

He just doesn't give a **** about anything aside from himself.

And MAGA is willing to do anything required to give him the keys to the car.

THEY will burn this country down to the ground because THEY don't give a **** about anything aside from themselves anymore. 

[mtutiger]

7 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Bump...

Genuinely curious about why this guy keeps getting floated.

Anybody? As dumb as a scenario that involves Biden being replaced by someone not named Kamala Harris would be, I still don't understand what exactly Gavin Newsom brings to the table that Josh Shapiro, Big Gretch, JB Pritzker, or probably 20-30 other Dem politicians bring.

It all just feels like a media hype-train thing from the NYC/DC Beltway crowd that isn't grounded in any sort of reality.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

We ABSOLUTELY become an authoritarian country if Trump wins.

He will BURN this country DOWN to the ground.

He just doesn't give a **** about anything aside from himself.

And MAGA is willing to do anything required to give him the keys to the car.

THEY will burn this country down to the ground because THEY don't give a **** about anything aside from themselves anymore. 

Why didn't it happen during his first presidency? Especialy the first two years when he had both the House and the Senate.  

"He just doesn't give a **** about anything aside from himself".  Absolutely true, but I think one has to think outside themselves to be an authoritarian leader.  He's too lazy and stupid and he surrounds himself with idiots.  

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 

"He just doesn't give a **** about anything aside from himself".  Absolutely true, but I think one has to think outside themselves to be an authoritarian leader.  He's too lazy and stupid and he surrounds himself with idiots.  

You are right that all he cares about is himself, but part of that is that it leads to one other big thing, which is that he cares a LOT about revenge, and that is what will make a second term much worse than the first. Also knowing from the start that he's out of office at the end of his term if he doesn't upset the Constitution completely. I think it's also incorrect to say he is lazy. He is disinterested in things he should take seriously - but he is actually pretty tireless at the one thing which is always his number one priority - which as you note, is himself.

Edited November 7, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You are right that all he cares about is himself, but part of that is that it leads to one other big thing, which is that he cares a LOT about revenge, and that is what will make a second term much worse than the first. Also knowing from the start that he's out of office at the end of his term if he doesn't upset the Constitution completely.

There will be attempted revenge, but nobody will go to jail, just like he won't go to jail.  I don't think it would be as dire as people are saying.  Just a lot of tough talk and a lot of chaos. 

Maybe they pass laws allowing him a third term and Obama will kick his ass in 2028! 😀

[mtutiger]

20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You are right that all he cares about is himself, but part of that is that it leads to one other big thing, which is that he cares a LOT about revenge, and that is what will make a second term much worse than the first. Also knowing from the start that he's out of office at the end of his term if he doesn't upset the Constitution completely.

I do think the "revenge" issue is a problem for him as a general election candidate. Not just for what it portends, but also because for a lot of voters (ie. the ones who will decide the next election, in the suburbs of Detroit, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.), that's not a winner for them. That's not an argument for them to cast a ballot for Trump and, despite of all Biden's issues, still remains a blinking neon sign pointing toward not voting for Trump.

My question is this: can he present even a modicum of a platform beyond just revenge? I think he's largely out of focus right now, he hasn't faced the press much, he's done some rallies that are largely substance free. And Biden, as the actual POTUS, is way more in focus and dealing with significant issues such as the Middle East, economic issues, etc. But in the general election, I don't know that he can run as the substance-free candidate that he has to date. He will have to pivot - he probably will, but we haven't seen it yet because I don't think he's really been challenged enough (both in terms of the GOP Primary and in terms of polling) to do it.

Edited November 7, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I do think the "revenge" issue is a problem for him as a general election candidate. Not just for what it portends, but also because for a lot of voters (ie. the ones who will decide the next election, in the suburbs of Detroit, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.), that's not a winner for them. That's not an argument for them to cast a ballot for Trump and, despite of all Biden's issues, still remains a blinking neon sign pointing toward not voting for Trump.

My question is this: can he present even a modicum of a platform beyond just revenge? I think he's largely out of focus right now, he hasn't faced the press much, he's done some rallies that are largely substance free. And Biden, as the actual POTUS, is way more in focus and dealing with significant issues such as the Middle East, economic issues, etc. But in the general election, I don't know that he can run as the substance-free candidate that he has to date. He will have to pivot - he probably will, but we haven't seen it yet because I don't think he's really been challenged enough (both in terms of the GOP Primary and in terms of polling) to do it.

There will be no substance.  He's going to be the same shallow dickbag has been for 45 years.  Why are you analyzing him like he's a normal person?  

[mtutiger]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

There will be no substance.  He's going to be the same shallow dickbag has been for 45 years.  Why are you analyzing him like he's a normal person?  

I do think he at least talked about policy more in 2016 and 2020.... particularly in 2016.

But regardless, my point is kinda rhetorical - I don't think that what we are seeing from him now (ie. largely substance free) is gonna change. His personal problems will likely be his platform as a candidate in 2024. And people are going to have to decide whether that's a good enough reason to vote or not vote for him (or to vote third party, but that's a whole other debate)

[oblong]

Trump had a lot of generally normal people around him. He didn’t expect to win.  Look at his first CoS. His cabinet.  Generally they were mainstream if not moderate republicans. Throw in Tillerson and Mattis… a second term will not have that. It will be the Rudys  and Flynns and Powells. He will fire Wray. Just look at who was left in his final weeks. 
 

We would look back and wish we had Barr and company. 

[oblong]

I think Haley will be the nominee.  And she will have a decent shot at winning.  The sense of urgency will be gone and then it becomes a question if Trumps **** will translate into voters for her. He may push for her if he thinks he can get a pardon. 

[mtutiger]

Just now, oblong said:

Trump had a lot of generally normal people around him. He didn’t expect to win.  Look at his first CoS. His cabinet.  Generally they were mainstream if not moderate republicans. Throw in Tillerson and Mattis… a second term will not have that. It will be the Rudys  and Flynns and Powells. He will fire Wray. Just look at who was left in his final weeks. 
 

We would look back and wish we had Barr and company. 

Exactly. That's the part of me that thinks that the "we're still a year out" point matters - the campaign really hasn't started yet (ie. Biden isn't out there campaigning, the GOP Primary is, nominally at least, ongoing). I don't think the electorate is paying that close of attention to any of this and is responding to their anxieties in the here and now.

That is going to change, Trump will have to be in front of cameras more, Biden will start truly campaigning against him. And the situation more broadly could change, for better or worse.

Not making predictions or saying changes are for the good or not, but there's a long way to go.... 

[Tiger337]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I do think he at least talked about policy more in 2016 and 2020.... particularly in 2016.

But regardless, my point is kinda rhetorical - I don't think that what we are seeing from him now (ie. largely substance free) is gonna change. His personal problems will likely be his platform as a candidate in 2024. And people are going to have to decide whether that's a good enough reason to vote or not vote for him (or to vote third party, but that's a whole other debate)

When he does talk about policy, It's just one liners and demagoguery.  It may be effective with his audience, but I don't know if I would call it "talking about policy".  

[RatkoVarda]

Trump 2.0 would not destroy the country - the rich and powerful would not allow it - but it would do great, lasting damage as the GQP tries to turn America into the 1950s South.

POC, immigrants, the poor, queer communities, women, Muslims and non-Christians specifically.

All sorts of bat-sh** laws, EOs and policies attacking these groups would be passed. Many would be ruled unconstitutional, but not all, considering the wacko federal judges Trump 1.0 put in place. Trump would find someone who would allow shooting of social justice protesters. He would find someone to arrest Milly and all the other traitors. He would pardon OK and PB and other J6 criminals.

As a white, Christian, old male, I would be just fine, probably better off financially if they push through yet another tax cut. But the suffering would be real for so many.

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Why didn't it happen during his first presidency? Especially the first two years when he had both the House and the Senate...  

...  He's too lazy and stupid and he surrounds himself with idiots.  

This is the answer on his first presidency.

But he's not as stupid as you think. He browbeat everyone around him, Congressional and Senate Republicans, state Republican apparatchiks into supporting his bull**** lie, AND ALMOST PULLED IT OFF!!!

He ALMOST overthrew our Constitution!!! In 2020!!!

We came a Pence-ethics hair away from HAVING our Democracy OVERTHROWN by this Fascists ****.

And now, he actually knows what he's doing!

Tell me how we are NOT going to be Authoritarian if Trump wins 2024? Feckless Republicans will stop him? No. MAGA Republicans in Congress and Senate will stop him? No. They SUPPORT him.

MAGA, right now, and MAGA Congress and MAGA Senators & Governors and MAGA state party voters and party apparatchiks want the CONSTITUTION OVERTHROWN, right now. They want Trump as a dictator, and Trump WANTS to be dictator... so badly! But they're not saying the quiet part out loud. Not yet anyways.

So tell me, how are we NOT going to be a dictatorship once Trump wins. Who is going to stop him?

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, RatkoVarda said:

Trump 2.0 would not destroy the country - the rich and powerful would not allow it - but it would do great, lasting damage as the GQP tries to turn America into the 1950s South.

POC, immigrants, the poor, queer communities, women, Muslims and non-Christians specifically.

All sorts of bat-sh** laws, EOs and policies attacking these groups would be passed. Many would be ruled unconstitutional, but not all, considering the wacko federal judges Trump 1.0 put in place. Trump would find someone who would allow shooting of social justice protesters. He would find someone to arrest Milly and all the other traitors. He would pardon OK and PB and other J6 criminals.

As a white, Christian, old male, I would be just fine, probably better off financially if they push through yet another tax cut. But the suffering would be real for so many.

I agree that the real owners of this country - the wealthy and powerful - will not allow it to be burned down.  I also don't think they want all the marginalized groups you mentioned to be destroyed either.  It would not be out of compassion of course.  They want to be able to sell products to as many people as possible though.  They'll allow these groups to have just enough so that they remain profitable assets.  

There will of course be hardships for many as more conservative laws are passed, but we won't lose our democracy.  They will still have a vote where they can bring more liberal people back into power.  

[1984Echoes]

10 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Trump 2.0 would not destroy the country - the rich and powerful would not allow it - but it would do great, lasting damage as the GQP tries to turn America into the 1950s South.

POC, immigrants, the poor, queer communities, women, Muslims and non-Christians specifically.

All sorts of bat-sh** laws, EOs and policies attacking these groups would be passed. Many would be ruled unconstitutional, but not all, considering the wacko federal judges Trump 1.0 put in place. Trump would find someone who would allow shooting of social justice protesters. He would find someone to arrest Milly and all the other traitors. He would pardon OK and PB and other J6 criminals.

As a white, Christian, old male, I would be just fine, probably better off financially if they push through yet another tax cut. But the suffering would be real for so many.

This is the BEST-CASE scenario if we have Trump 2.0.

This... or worse.

Like... The National Guard and the US Military used to ENFORCE his dictates. How about that one?

It goes downhill from this BEST-case scenario that Ratko outlined...

[1984Echoes]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I agree that the real owners of this country - the wealthy and powerful - will not allow it to be burned down....

Is that like...

You know...

Just like what happened in...

Russia?

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

There will be attempted revenge, but nobody will go to jail, just like he won't go to jail.  I don't think it would be as dire as people are saying.  Just a lot of tough talk and a lot of chaos...

Thousands and THOUSANDS of government employees will lose their jobs.

He will replace them with boot-licking sycophants.

NOONE will be able to get ANY job, NOT in the US Military, Department of (anything), or anywhere where he has a say without FIRST signing a pledge to be strictly loyal to Donald MF'ing Trump and **** the oath to protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

The NEW pledge will be: "to protect Donald J. Trump against all enemies, foreign or domestic."

You guys know this, right?

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

There will be attempted revenge, but nobody will go to jail, just like he won't go to jail.  I don't think it would be as dire as people are saying.  Just a lot of tough talk and a lot of chaos. 

Maybe they pass laws allowing him a third term and Obama will kick his ass in 2028! 😀

Just to be more specific:

Trump will PURGE the US Military of ALL officers who do NOT sign a loyalty pledge directly to him.

And the same with every other governmental employee he can get his hands on.

You guys know this, right?

[Edman85]

17 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Thousands and THOUSANDS of government employees will lose their jobs.

He will replace them with boot-licking sycophants.

NOONE will be able to get ANY job, NOT in the US Military, Department of (anything), or anywhere where he has a say without FIRST signing a pledge to be strictly loyal to Donald MF'ing Trump and **** the oath to protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

The NEW pledge will be: "to protect Donald J. Trump against all enemies, foreign or domestic."

You guys know this, right?

Rank and file government employees are protected from political retaliation by civil service laws. There is some hyperbole here.

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Rank and file government employees are protected from political retaliation by civil service laws. There is some hyperbole here.

But Trump is going to destroy the constitution and change all our laws. He is going to be king of the world!!! This is not a theory.  It is inevitable.  Life as we know it is going to be over.  

[1984Echoes]

10 hours ago, oblong said:

I think Haley will be the nominee.  And she will have a decent shot at winning.  The sense of urgency will be gone and then it becomes a question if Trumps **** will translate into voters for her. He may push for her if he thinks he can get a pardon. 

This is the best case scenario for Election-2024.

On the Republican side that is...

I don't know what the Dems best case for 2024 is...

I'm voting Dem regardless of who the candidate is so it doesn't matter to me "who" that is. Not until Republicans purge the MAGA/ Fascist Caucus (which WON'T be in 2024); until them I consider them an existential threat to my right to vote as a US Citizen and not have my vote tossed out in a fascist move to overthrow my vote, my right to live my life how I want to without Republican Morality Police interfering, etc.

Republicans no longer exist in my book.

[1984Echoes]

34 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Rank and file government employees are protected from political retaliation by civil service laws. There is some hyperbole here.

Trump doesn't give an F about civil service laws.

Hyperbole?

Hey, aren't there LAWS on the books stating that a President can not enrich himself while in office?

Amongst a hundred other laws that Trump just **** on?

No, not hyperbole... reality.

Trump will overthrow the rule of law in the US, and overthrow the Constitution.

Book it.