ewsieg Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Trump 2.0 would absolutely be a larger embarrassment to this country than Trump 1.0. He definitely would bring in some deplorable folks for his cabinet. And while there is a part of me that would be fine if we simply decided to execute anyone that stepped inside the Capitol on 1/6, let's not pretend that our democracy was almost overthrown. The "deep state" does exist. It's not some boogie man that is trying to control your lives though, it's roughly 2 million fellow citizens from various race, religion, and creed doing their part to provide the services the government provides. I'm still confident it's stronger than any 1 person. All that said, i'm going to do my part to avoid 2.0. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 It WAS almost overthrown. Not by the Jan 6th crowd, who threatened violence unless Congress did Trump's bidding. But by Mike Pence. All he had to do was acquiesce to Trump's demand to throw it back to Congress as "invalid" electors. And then votes, one per state, with more Republican states at that time, would have handed it to Trump. Constitution overthrown. Trump called for the Jan 6th coup attempt specifically to threaten Pence because Pence refused to overthrow the Constitution. If you want to look for a hero in this story, it's Mike Pence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 To be more blunt about this: ONE PERSON prevented Trump from OVERTHROWING the Constitution on Jan 6th. Mike Pence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: To be more blunt about this: ONE PERSON prevented Trump from OVERTHROWING the Constitution on Jan 6th. Mike Pence. He did his part from letting it go further, but even if he tried to stop it, it would have just delayed the inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Rank and file government employees are protected from political retaliation by civil service laws. There is some hyperbole here. they have an actual written plan - Schedule F - to get around this; convert at least 50K federal workers from civil servants to political appointees, who can then be summarily fired. DeSantis has given this his full endorsement as well. will it work? I don't know; Eastman's crazy plan to overthrow the government was sloppy, stupid, unconstitutional - and it was about 2 hours away from happening. 1984 is over the top, but pretending there is nothing to fear from Trump/GQP is a really odd take. and flatly incorrect. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: To be more blunt about this: ONE PERSON prevented Trump from OVERTHROWING the Constitution on Jan 6th. Mike Pence. Its hard to argue this. And Trump will make sure there won't be a Mike Pence in his way next time he wants to do something blatantly against the Constitution. Look where Pence is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, ewsieg said: He did his part from letting it go further, but even if he tried to stop it, it would have just delayed the inevitable. I would certainly hope for this... But I don't want Trump anywhere NEAR the Presidency because next time, he'll figure out how to actually overthrow the Constitution. I still say we were the width of a Mike Pence ethical hair away from losing our Democracy. If he would've thrown it back to Congress per Trump's demand... who knows what would have happened after that...? But I would certainly have hoped for your take on the inevitable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: they have an actual written plan - Schedule F - to get around this; convert at least 50K federal workers from civil servants to political appointees, who can then be summarily fired. DeSantis has given this his full endorsement as well. will it work? I don't know; Eastman's crazy plan to overthrow the government was sloppy, stupid, unconstitutional - and it was about 2 hours away from happening.... Bingo. And not in a good way. 7 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: ... 1984 is over the top, but pretending there is nothing to fear from Trump/GQP is a really odd take. and flatly incorrect. Not to be over the top, but I have viscerally reviled Trump for over 40+ years. The worst human scumbag on the planet. I loathe this fascist (since 1989 (Tiananmen Square): "I HATE American democracy... we should be more like CHEYE-NA and use tanks on protesters!!!") ****wad. Not to be over the top... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 minute ago, RatkoVarda said: Lee... Are you certain this guy would not be an existential threat against American democracy and freedoms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said: they have an actual written plan - Schedule F - to get around this; convert at least 50K federal workers from civil servants to political appointees, who can then be summarily fired. DeSantis has given this his full endorsement as well. will it work? I don't know; Eastman's crazy plan to overthrow the government was sloppy, stupid, unconstitutional - and it was about 2 hours away from happening. 1984 is over the top, but pretending there is nothing to fear from Trump/GQP is a really odd take. and flatly incorrect. Prior to November 2020, I tended to be more in the "institutions would hold" camp, but frankly even in the event that there's hyperbole involved, I would prefer that we not have to test them in the first place to the degree that another Trump term would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Cygnal is a (R) pollster as well. The Times poll was horrific, but also a reminder that it isnt the only pollster either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 What's really scary is to start thinking about what a Trump's cabinet might look like for a second administration. Chief of Staff - Devin Nunes Secretary of State - Tucker Carlson Secretary of Defense - Michael Flynn Attorney General - Matt Gaetz Secretary of the Treasury - Vivek Rameswamy Secretary of Homeland Security - Byron Donalds Secretary of Health and Human Services - Kari Lake Secretary of Veterans Affairs - Ronny Jackson White House Counsel - Alina Habba FBI Director - Kash Patel CIA Director - Richard Grenell Surgeon General - Mehmet Oz Feel free to add your own worst case scenarios..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 19 minutes ago, MIguy said: What's really scary is to start thinking about what a Trump's cabinet might look like for a second administration. Chief of Staff - Devin Nunes Secretary of State - Tucker Carlson Secretary of Defense - Michael Flynn Attorney General - Matt Gaetz Secretary of the Treasury - Vivek Rameswamy Secretary of Homeland Security - Byron Donalds Secretary of Health and Human Services - Kari Lake Secretary of Veterans Affairs - Ronny Jackson White House Counsel - Alina Habba FBI Director - Kash Patel CIA Director - Richard Grenell Surgeon General - Mehmet Oz Feel free to add your own worst case scenarios..... It would be kleptocracy and theocracy in the service of the Anti-Christ Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 this if from the Atlantic article; had to share Meanwhile, millions of voters are folding their arms like shirty children and threatening to sit out the election because they don’t like their choices. Some are threatening to withhold support, in particular, for Joe Biden if they don’t get their way about student loans, climate change, or policy toward Israel. They are living in a booming economy that is outperforming any other developed nation since the start of the pandemic on many measures—and they are miserable and angry about it. Many voters resent hearing all of this. They think they are being bullied into a binary choice between two candidates they do not like, and so they engage in wishcasting: If only someone could beat Trump for the GOP nomination (no one will); if only Biden would step down (he won’t); if only America didn’t rely on the Electoral College (it does); and so on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 19 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: this if from the Atlantic article; had to share Meanwhile, millions of voters are folding their arms like shirty children and threatening to sit out the election because they don’t like their choices. Some are threatening to withhold support, in particular, for Joe Biden if they don’t get their way about student loans, climate change, or policy toward Israel. Far left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I think it's fine to not like choices and and all, but while the choice isn't binary, the result will be. Everybody is entitled to vote however they please, it's a personal choice; but for me, given the system we have, as terrible as it is, if I'm given a choice between only two candidates who actually have a chance to be President, I'm picking between those two candidates. I would love to have more choices, but that would require significant changes to our electoral system; this isn't a parliamentary system, nor is like France where there's almost guaranteed run-off after the first round. So really, I don't feel as if there's much choice but to play the game as I see it. Others MMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: I think it's fine to not like choices and and all, but while the choice isn't binary, the result will be. Everybody is entitled to vote however they please, it's a personal choice; but for me, given the system we have, as terrible as it is, if I'm given a choice between only two candidates who actually have a chance to be President, I'm picking between those two candidates. I would love to have more choices, but that would require significant changes to our electoral system; this isn't a parliamentary system, nor is like France where there's almost guaranteed run-off after the first round. So really, I don't feel as if there's much choice but to play the game as I see it. Others MMV. To me the choice is between eating a bland bowl oatmeal and eating a can of expired wet dog food out of a can. One is just not going to excite me or give me any kind of joy but whatever. It'll be over soon. The other will be horrible the entire time and may hurt me and make my life miserable for an extended period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Remember this one? "Trump's popularity will decline every year as more and more boomers die". LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 3 hours ago, mtutiger said: I think it's fine to not like choices and and all, but while the choice isn't binary, the result will be. Everybody is entitled to vote however they please, it's a personal choice; but for me, given the system we have, as terrible as it is, if I'm given a choice between only two candidates who actually have a chance to be President, I'm picking between those two candidates.... Worse: When one of the choices is an existential choice to the detriment of the country... Let's call him Hugo Chavez... or Nicholas Maduro... Then... This comes into play: On 11/6/2023 at 9:15 AM, RatkoVarda said: Voting 3rd party, not voting, and voting for Trump are all the same thing. There are those who disagree with this sentiment. But I agree with it... if the choice is ANY Democrat (you can put any name in this box, I don't care...); then the choice is NOT only binary, but a matter of survival. Do you vote for Chavez/ Maduro/ Trump, threatening the future of the country? Vote 3rd party? Stay at home in a stew over choices? All three are the same thing: a vote AGAINST democracy and the Constitution of the United States. YMMV. But I maintain that Election 2024 is an existential vote for democracy in the United States of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said: Remember this one? "Trump's popularity will decline every year as more and more boomers die". LOL! That's yet to be quantified... So hold off on lol I would think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 Watching some of the returns tonight, kinda wondering why the donor class isn't fantasizing about Andy Beshear more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 What if a right winger dislikes Trump and hates Biden even more and votes third party for a Libertarian. Is that the same as a vote for Trump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: What if a right winger dislikes Trump and hates Biden even more and votes third party for a Libertarian. Is that the same as a vote for Trump? I'll allow that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 😁😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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