2024 Presidential Election thread

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The Times are in the typical ideologue trap of preferring to lose than to admit they are wrong about anything.

And it dates back years.... this isn't new. This is the same editorial board that excoriated Joe Biden when interviewing him during the 2020 primary and whose elevator operator went viral with Biden going down after the interview. 

I stand behind my earlier comments about this and that I have concerns about Biden's candidacy going forward, but I'm just not going to pretend that the Times, or the Post, or many other journalists are completely straight when they cover Joe Biden. They weren't during the last primary season, and IMO, it's explained in part because he's not an Ivy Leaguer and came from a different class than many of them did. And it mirrors their inability to really capture the median American in their coverage IMO

Edited June 29 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Good. Then put your effort into telling others why they should vote for Biden instead of fantasies about your token senator becoming the nominee. 

This is not a Biden campaign site.  It's a place where where we dicuss politics and this thread in particular is where we talk about the election.  That includes analyzing the chances of favorite and not so favorite candidates.  

[Motown Bombers]

Spoiler alert, Hobbs and Brewer won.

I have seen too many political debates over the years, and almost all of them were horrible.

I take that back.

ALL of them were horrible.

Boring.

Uneventful.

Predictable.

In the modern era, the definition of a “debate” is: A public event in which competing candidates ignore questions posed by moderators and repeat talking points.

I don’t believe a single person’s mind, or a single vote, is changed during a debate, though reporters eagerly seeking out citizens for reaction will invariably find one or two individuals who may claim as much, probably to see their names in print or their faces on TV.

I do believe, however, that refusing to participate in a debate can – and will – cost Democrat Katie Hobbs votes in her campaign to become Arizona’s governor.

Refusing to debate makes Hobbs look weak

It’s a weak move.

Hobbs is refusing to appear face to face on stage with Republican Kari Lake because doing so “would only lead to constant interruptions, pointless distractions and childish name-calling.”

For some reason, Hobbs and her advisers failed to realize that those are the very reasons she SHOULD debate Lake, to demonstrate she is just the opposite of that.

It's official: Katie Hobbs will not debate Kari Lake in governor race

It would not be difficult.

Avoiding such a debate doesn’t only make Hobbs look wimpy. It’s offering proof that she is.

Has no one on her staff talked Hobbs about Jan Brewer?

It’s not exactly ancient history.

Brewer blanked in a debate. It didn't matter

During her 2010 campaign for governor, Brewer, who was running against Democrat Terry Goddard, had the worst debate performance I’ve ever seen – almost scary, since it seemed she might be having a seizure right there on TV.

Brewer was delivering her opening remarks when she froze. No question had been asked. No complex policy issue was being explained. Brewer was talking and then she just … stopped.

Her mind went blank, she said later, and for 13 seconds – a really long time when a person is looking into a television camera – she froze.

Nothing.

Silence.

She said later, “If someone had asked me my name, I wouldn’t have been able to tell them.”

A governor must take on bullies

She also said that, in the end, she decided to “laugh about it, forget it and move on.’

EXACTLY!

Because as bad as it was, and as disastrous as it seemed, Brewer kept going. She was never good at debates, but she didn’t back down from them either, and the people who wanted to support her appreciated that.

And they voted for her.

And Brewer won the election.

Because debates do not change many votes. If any.

However, refusing to participate in a debate, refusing to appear on stage with a prickly opponent, is the kind of news story and opposing campaign material that doesn’t go away. It’s the schoolyard bully who dogs you until you stand up to him.

It doesn’t matter if the debate is a circus. It doesn’t even matter if you do or say something mortifying or embarrassing. Or say nothing for 13 seconds. What’s important is showing up.

Because a governor will be challenged by lots of bullies during her term in office. And she has to be willing to confront them, stand up to them.

This was Hobbs first chance at doing so, and …

https://www.yahoo.com/news/katie-hobbs-failed-learn-political-140015762.html

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

This is not a Biden campaign site.  It's a place where where we dicuss politics and this thread in particular is where we talk about the election.  That includes analyzing the chances of favorite and not so favorite candidates.  

He's free to tell people outside of this site to vote for Biden. 

[Tiger337]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

He's free to tell people outside of this site to vote for Biden. 

Maybe he is.  I doubt he is telling them to vote for Trump.  

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

Maybe he is.  I doubt he is telling them to vote for Trump.  

He's probably telling them fantasies of how we can replace Biden with his token black senator or favorite white governor. 

[Motown Bombers]

The best part is, Georgia's other senator is young, excellent speaker, and fantastic debater but he's a Jew and would probably do a genocide. 

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

He's probably telling them fantasies of how we can replace Biden with his token black senator or favorite white governor. 

Based on everything I know about Tater, he will be advocating for Biden and against Trump going forward.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[mtutiger]

My hottest take from what happened last night is that the "black jobs" comment is going to hurt Trump a lot more than people realize. Especially when you consider that a lot of the polling shows Trump overperforming with AAs/Latino voters, and that his polling lead, to some extent, rests on that.

We always assume that it's only about style, but on substance, this likely hurt him a lot with a group he has polled relatively well with during this cycle.

 

[Motown Bombers]

It's been circulating a lot on black Twitter. I never believed the polls in that Trump was making gains with blacks. If you believe those polls, those polls also show Biden making gains with old people. Attacks on Biden being old will likely only help him with old people. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I hate to pick on the NYT because it went beyond them, but if we are sitting here two weeks from now and it's status quo or close to status quo in this Presidential race, given how far out over their skis they got.... like, how do you walk that back?

They aren't going to let up, but jeez, it would make them look a lot more irrelevant.

Now,TBH, I've been a Times reader for years, and the Editorial Board editorials trend mostly to the trite, insipid, and to generally pointlessly pointing out the obvious. The value on the NYT OpEd page has always been the columnists. And that isn't unusual at any newspaper. The difference here is that they are opining on something important, whereas the Ed Board pieces are often esoteric or parochial (NYC stuff).

[pfife]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

This is not a Biden campaign site.  It's a place where where we dicuss politics and this thread in particular is where we talk about the election.  That includes analyzing the chances of favorite and not so favorite candidates.  

What, you mean we shouldn't take posting demands from the most prolific poster of anti-semitic content on this site?

[CMRivdogs]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

My hottest take from what happened last night is that the "black jobs" comment is going to hurt Trump a lot more than people realize. Especially when you consider that a lot of the polling shows Trump overperforming with AAs/Latino voters, and that his polling lead, to some extent, rests on that.

We always assume that it's only about style, but on substance, this likely hurt him a lot with a group he has polled relatively well with during this cycle.

 

Could Black Jobs become the next binders full of women?
 

[oblong]

The NY Times is a relic. It’s cursive handwriting. They serve no purpose in a modern world. Pundits and columnists, especially from NY don’t matter anymore in a connected world.  They are not smarter than us and don’t have any special skills or insights. They are just assholes taking **** like the rest of us. They don’t move needles.  

[pfife]

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

The NY Times is a relic. It’s cursive handwriting. They serve no purpose in a modern world. Pundits and columnists, especially from NY don’t matter anymore in a connected world.  They are not smarter than us and don’t have any special skills or insights. They are just assholes taking **** like the rest of us. They don’t move needles.  

I would generalize this to not only (but esp) the NYTimes but frankly most columnists.   One of the accountability-free "professions" there is.   I used to be super interested in NYtimes columns that crushed W or something like that back in the day but it doesn't take very long to figure out that it totally doesn't matter.

Thomas Friedman is the absolute worst.

[gehringer_2]

Just now, oblong said:

The NY Times is a relic. It’s cursive handwriting. They serve no purpose in a modern world. Pundits and columnists, especially from NY don’t matter anymore in a connected world.  They are not smarter than us and don’t have any special skills or insights. They are just assholes taking **** like the rest of us. They don’t move needles.  

Can’t agree. Newspapers are still the source of way more than their media market share of primary news reporting that we get and they still pay the salaries of the people looking for new stories. The video news world is limited by being mostly reactive. 
 

Op-Ed pages may be another matter 🙄, but even there, writers like Linda Greenhouse, who has written in depth on SCOTUS for years, is always worth the read. 

[Edman85]

I think it is to the point where people are so wrapped up in the horse race, they haven't taken a step back to contextualize the magnitude of a poor debate performance against the magnitude of the boiled frog's numerous sins.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

9 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Good. Then put your effort into telling others why they should vote for Biden instead of fantasies about your token senator becoming the nominee. 

It's a message board where we express our opinions. I don't need to be lectured by you and neither does anyone else here. You're welcome to sign up and volunteer with the MDP to knock doors as I have professor. 

https://michigandems.com/volunteer/

But since your now in charge of filtering and regulating opinions around here please let me know what to type next. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Edit, duplicate post.

Edited June 29 by Mr.TaterSalad

[pfife]

1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

It's a message board where we express our opinions. I don't need to be lectured by you and neither does anyone else here. You're welcome to sign up and volunteer with the MDP to knock doors as I have professor. 

https://michigandems.com/volunteer/

But since your now in charge of filtering and regulating opinions around here please let me know what to type next. 

Correct.  No one should feel compelled to follow the demands the most prolific anti-semite on this board. 

[pfife]

9 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

He's free to tell people outside of this site to vote for Biden. 

What he's free to say anywhere doesn't have a damn thing to do with you. 

[Motor City Sonics]

Here's one thing about Biden.   He's been counted out so many times in his career and he always seems to come back.  Don't count that aspect out. 

My impression is that yes, he was under the weather, he sounded like it.   Damn microphones don't miss anything.  But I also think his handlers, the ones who prepped him for the debate stressed to him "don't get mad",  "stay calm" "don't get in a brawl" "be the adult",  but I think Biden is a bit of a sneaky brawler and I think really pushing himself to hold back may have rattled him.    Let Dark Brandon out.   That's what people want to see.    Whomever handled his strategy for this debate needs to be shown the door.     No matter what, Joe,  as in the muck as  you can possibly get, you will never be as slimy as Trump.   That's impossible. 

Obama's first debate against Romney was a flop.  Same reason.  He was far too passive,  even for such a vanilla guy like Obama.   He got a little testy (by Obama standards) in the later debates and was the clear winner in those.  

Getting riled up is human.    Don't be robotic. 

Just don't count Joe out.   His whole career is full of comebacks.       

 

Edited June 29 by Motor City Sonics

[Motor City Sonics]

Got a post on Facebook that it's Trump that shares Catholic Values, not that fake Catholic Biden. 

You mean cheating on every wife?

Two divorces?  (and a third one coming one day)

Banging a stripper and paying her off?   

Or do you mean Catholic Values as in being around people that you know are molesting children and doing nothing about it?      Yep,  I guess he does share those values.  

[pfife]

10 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Good. Then put your effort into telling others why they should vote for Biden instead of fantasies about your token senator becoming the nominee. 

Guy obsessed with posting antisemitic videos on this site, as evidenced by all of the antisemitic videos he posted on this site, advising others on time management.