gehringer_2 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 6 minutes ago, oblong said: We have gone 43 years without a shooting at a protected and suddenly they don’t know what they are doing? How many planes did Boeing put in the sky before the 737Max? This can happen to any institution no matter how long their record. Maybe they get sclerotic or start misplacing their priorities. Every org that isn't in a constant state of upgrade/renewal is going backward. Edited July 17 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, 1776 said: You really can’t make this stuff up.. Embattled Secret Service director Kimberly Cheatle has a bizarre explanation for the agency’s failure to secure the rooftop used by the shooter who attempted to assassinate former president Donald Trump over the weekend. “That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there’s a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn’t want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,” Cheatle told ABC News in an exchange that was not included in the outlet’s write-up of the interview nor the published transcript. This is a top down issue. I mean if this was the answer for not manning a roof of the ONLY spot a shooter would have 100% visibilty and high ground of target??? Lets not forget he also brought a ladder to gain access to the impervial roof. She might need to ask for her job back at Pepsico and "checks notes" Her role there was developing risk managment risk mitigation plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: How many planes did Boeing put in the sky before the 737Max? This can happen to any institution no matter how long their record. Maybe they get sclerotic or start misplacing their priorities. Every org that isn't in a constant state of upgrade/renewal is going backward. But in this situation we are talking about multi jurisdictions of responsibility between the feds and state and locals. I refuse to believe this happened because someone in the secret service “forgot” or “didn’t think about it”. Did some locals drop the ball? Wouldn’t surprise me especially given the aforementioned reference to the non DEI folks in Ulvade TX. Someone thought someone else was taking care of it. I will wait for the investigation before playing the “what they should have done” game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 38 minutes ago, oblong said: But in this situation we are talking about multi jurisdictions of responsibility between the feds and state and locals. I refuse to believe this happened because someone in the secret service “forgot” or “didn’t think about it”. I believe the story is already out that SS assigns the locals their jobs outside the perimeter, but if they are not following up effectively, then you still have an organizational failure. And sure, it's probably multi-modal, but that's the bar a high performance organization has to meet. It's not like this was an act of nature or an earthquake, fire flood or act of God which no-one foresaw or overwhelmed resources. It was a perp doing exactly what they are supposed to stop a perp from doing and he did it from a pretty obvious place to do it from. I think it's going to be hard for someone not to take a fall on this one whether at the SS or the locals. Edited July 17 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 (edited) I was reading an article where a former secret service agent was quoted talking about how the famous photo is itself possibly photo of a breakdown b/c their protocol is to basically completely cover him using their body as shield and many parts of the protectee's head and body are completely prone and unprotected from further shots in that photo. Unless the secret service knew and believed he was safe, but their subsequent actions do not suggest they believed that. Edited July 17 by pfife 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: There is one drawback in putting drones up, and this is maintaining FOF ID. There may be a feeling that keeping the sky completely clear is the least ambiguous way to maintain security - anything that is flying can be assumed hostile. That's just a spitball though... Yeah, I guess i never thought of that. I just see realtors use them but I didnt think about control of the airspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: I believe the story is already out that SS assigns the locals their jobs outside the perimeter, but if they are not following up effectively, then you still have an organizational failure. And sure, it's probably multi-modal, but that's the bar a high performance organization has to meet. It's not like this was an act of nature or an earthquake, fire flood or act of God which no-one foresaw or overwhelmed resources. It was a perp doing exactly what they are supposed to stop a perp from doing and he did it from a pretty obvious place to do it from. I think it's going to be hard for someone not to take a fall on this one whether at the SS or the locals. Exactly, SS has control of perimeter. The building was 160 yards away and outside the established perimeter. I am not a great shot but I even qualfied Marksman (23/40) in cluster at 200 yards. This kid landed 3 rounds in the 10 inch cluster while being harrassed by local fuzz. Imagine the range of a trained sniper. Chealte needs to be fired. Edited July 17 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, pfife said: I was reading an article where a former secret service agent was quoted talking about how the famous photo is itself possibly photo of a breakdown b/c their protocol is to basically completely cover him using their body as shield and many parts of the protectee's head and body are completely prone and unprotected from further shots in that photo. Unless the secret service knew and believed he was safe, but their subsequent actions do not suggest they believed that. But then Trump wouldn't have been able to put on a show for his fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 10 hours ago, ben9753 said: Remember those brave not DEI men who stopped the Texas schools shooter? /s I am guessing Clint Eastwood in "In the Line of Fire" was DEI too? The general observation that a Secret Service agent froze is fine... Tying it into the broader culture war is wrong and accomplishes nothing. Edited July 17 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) I would just add that what happened on Saturday was deadly serious and deserves an actual investigation to figure out what's going on. The results of which will be remembered for a long time and (hopefully) will lead to actual changes. Even beyond "blue check" Twitter reply guys (ie. Paul Szypula), actual Members of Congress throwing around their culture war acronym of the month around makes it less likely to take their findings or thoughts seriously because it demonstrates that they are less interested in a finding the facts and more interested in keeping everyone divided along political lines (which, isn't that what we want to get away from?) Edited July 17 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 The stakes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, ben9753 said: What’s your rational conclusion? I am being told by my gov't that one of these roofs were too dangerous to post a sniper on and the other was fine. I can't rationalize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: The stakes.... I think this is a dual level thing. I heard on Marketplace this morning that the markets are down this morning because of this. Coupled with this..... Donald Trump warns US Fed chair not to cut rates before the election https://www.ft.com/content/11bc931f-5c5e-4e3c-9ceb-9bdca25430ad He's trying to tank the market on Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 Now some of you may remember from the time he was presidon't he would pressure Jerome Powell to keep interest rates low, even while the economy was "the greatest economy anyone has ever seen". It doesn't take being an Australian school economic fictionalist to know that's inflationary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 Niki Haley, also known as Nancy Pelosi, argues that a vote for Biden is a vote for Harris. I would argue that a vote for Trump is also a vote for DJ Vince (also known as JD Mandel). Precedent clearly suggests some republican will exploit republican gun laws and shoot the republican president with the Republican's favorite gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pfife said: . Precedent clearly suggests some republican will exploit republican gun laws and shoot the republican president with the Republican's favorite gun. Probably just as likely he'll consume one too many double cheeseburgers and large fries slathered with Ketchup. Not to mention his reported insatiable Coke addiction. Edited July 17 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 14 minutes ago, pfife said: Now some of you may remember from the time he was presidon't he would pressure Jerome Powell to keep interest rates low, even while the economy was "the greatest economy anyone has ever seen". It doesn't take being an Australian school economic fictionalist to know that's inflationary. Three Year Letterman inspired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 14 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: When some people, men or women get put into high pressure scenarios they freeze up. This lady here did just that. Not saying she is there due to DEI but to get this level assignment I do question some things. Like her vagina? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: A $150 drone could have secured an area twice as big as 160 yards. I'm not sure why any drones weren't used. It's time for some conspiracy theories. Ooh! Ooh! Do the one where the cop climbed to the roof, saw the shooter, then climbed back down! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Just to veer off topic a little and make a general observation. We see so many of these kinds of institutional failures because people simply have no *imagination* anymore. "Well we didn't think anyone would do that." is the modern excuse de jure. I was criticized more than once during my working career for bringing up contingencies that had not happened that I thought we needed to plan for. We've never seen anything like that happen, let's keep living in the real world here. That kind of thing. To be fair, most of the them ended up not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, Tiger337 said: One of them froze, so they got rid of all three? Maybe he got that idea from Kim Jong Un? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Like her vagina? Negative. I know you get kicks on body shaming women (we have gone over this if you remember). So I will put in terms you like to see Sourdough Sally might not be a great fit when it comes to reacting to an active shooter scenario. They are plenty of men who fit this narrative as well. It just so happen to occur to Sally on live TV for the whole world to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, Hongbit said: MAGA will tell you the problem is too many blacks and women in leadership positions. I’m sure there’s some part of Project 2025 that will address it. There is. It's called "combating affirmative discrimination." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 22 minutes ago, romad1 said: Three Year Letterman inspired. I miss that account. The best to ever do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 Cspan is getting flooded with calls about Project 2025. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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