2024 Presidential Election thread

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, oblong said:

That will lead to a rise in mail in voting so the husband and wife can sit down and “vote together”.  
 

seriously it is a good message because I bet a lot of women in rural areas do not know their vote is private and vote one particularly way out of fear. 

I wonder whether they vote out of fear to avoid having to go through the constant cognitive dissonance of essentially living a lie to everyone around them.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I wonder whether they vote out of fear to avoid having to go through the constant cognitive dissonance of essentially living a lie to everyone around them.

Yep. I never read Peyton Place but I read about it.  That still goes on in small town America 

[romad1]

13 hours ago, The Ronz said:

Yea - I know all that.

Nazism was an export from Detroit, Michigan USA.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this?   Is this a Henry Ford or a Father Coughlin thing?   Ford reprinted the Protocols but they were a Czarist Russian creation (btw, how nice that Russian influence ops are still a thing in our politics).   

Coughlin had that blowtorch radio program but he was Catholic and not in sync exactly with Nazi ideology.  

Do you mean that Detroit-based Germans were upset about the end of WWI and created the Dolchstoßlegende?

 

[Motown Bombers]

I went down a rabbit hole on Twitter. The governor of Alabama put out a tweet about $42 million in high speed internet investment. Of course, she took full credit and not the fact the funds came from Biden. I read the comments on the tweet and it was a bunch of posts about what she is going to do about the Haitians being airdropped into the state and taking over all their towns. These bumble****s never even knew what a Haitian was until Vance made up stories. 

[mtutiger]

Shameless

[chasfh]

34 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I went down a rabbit hole on Twitter. The governor of Alabama put out a tweet about $42 million in high speed internet investment. Of course, she took full credit and not the fact the funds came from Biden. I read the comments on the tweet and it was a bunch of posts about what she is going to do about the Haitians being airdropped into the state and taking over all their towns. These bumble****s never even knew what a Haitian was until Vance made up stories. 

Haitians make a nifty bogeyman for southerners in particular not only because they’re blacker than most nationalities, but also because Haiti had the successful slave revolt while Alabamans were still allowed to own black people, and they are super sore and maybe even still nervous about that.

[Motor City Sonics]

12 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I'm glad Eric and Trump Jr are keeping their father humble.  

Let them keep this up.   This is one of the things that will cost them female votes in the center.

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Shameless

Because that’s OK because the media is now talking about it, which is good, but also, it’s the media’s fault for keeping it in the media.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

sh|t meet wall.

 

Here’s how: “We are so glad, sir, that you are president now, sir, that we will gladly cut our rates in half and make far less profit, every single one of us, because you are going to Make America Great Again™, sir.” Isn’t that how capitalism works?

[RatkoVarda]

Trump was incoherent at the Flint townhall - and no one cares.

Bagram is in Alaska

I will cut groceries $ by banning imports - also, windmills

Nuclear war biggest threat to manufacturing jobs

No one leaves my rallies

Global warming will give MI more coastline

China attacked me with virus

Biden is far more together than this lunatic - and no one cares.

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

they also don't work - at least not without turning an economy into 1950's Russia.

What if I were to suggest that Harris is not talking about Soviet-style price controls, as much as she is about enacting surgical regulations to keep the largest companies from using their control of their markets, whether singularly or collaboratively, to extract predatory prices from customers who can’t reasonably go anywhere else? Would that make more sense? Or would you still believe in the Invisible Hand of the Market always acting in the best interests of consumers over producers?

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

He’s still rattled from the debate. 

 

Good, as long as somebody out there is keeping the debate top of mind in the aftermath of the sort-of assassination attempt.

[oblong]

A friend of mine told me that her son, who is very smart (goes to Carnegie Mellon and very well aware of his privilege), asked her "Mom, if you put your shoes in someone who lives paycheck to paycheck, what issues do you think they are basing their vote on?"  It's not about who should they vote for, or who has their best interests in mind.  I think we all know that.  But put yourself in their shows, living their life.  They're not on twitter all day.  Trump's rhetoric appeals to them and they don't know it's BS.  They don't care about abortion rights. Their heatlh insurance probably sucks.  Kamala has to do a good job appealing to those people.   We can mock about only caring about the price of milk or eggs but to a lot of people that's the most important issue.  Perception is reality when it comes to politics.

 

[Motown Bombers]

I’m not buying that. A lot of people are voting for Trump in Michigan because of the border and not the border Michigan is on. 

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, oblong said:

A friend of mine told me that her son, who is very smart (goes to Carnegie Mellon and very well aware of his privilege), asked her "Mom, if you put your shoes in someone who lives paycheck to paycheck, what issues do you think they are basing their vote on?"  It's not about who should they vote for, or who has their best interests in mind.  I think we all know that.  But put yourself in their shows, living their life.  They're not on twitter all day.  Trump's rhetoric appeals to them and they don't know it's BS.  They don't care about abortion rights. Their heatlh insurance probably sucks.  Kamala has to do a good job appealing to those people.   We can mock about only caring about the price of milk or eggs but to a lot of people that's the most important issue.  Perception is reality when it comes to politics.

 

I think you're right in terms of how low information voters approach these choices for sure, but with regard to the bolded, in Year of Our Lord 2024 with Leon Musk owning Twitter, that probably cuts to the D's advantage when marketing to undecided voters IMO

Edited September 18 by mtutiger

[oblong]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I think you're right in terms of how low information voters approach these choices for sure, but with regard to the bolded, in Year of Our Lord 2024 with Leon Musk owning Twitter, that probably cuts to the D's advantage when marketing to undecided voters IMO

I'm using twitter as a term for just overall political engagement and research of issues.  They're not doing that.  They get their information from Joe at the store and ads they see on TV.  I don't know Kamala's team can do to reach them.  They need ads targeted to them to peel off what they can.

[RatkoVarda]

14 minutes ago, oblong said:

A friend of mine told me that her son, who is very smart (goes to Carnegie Mellon and very well aware of his privilege), asked her "Mom, if you put your shoes in someone who lives paycheck to paycheck, what issues do you think they are basing their vote on?"  It's not about who should they vote for, or who has their best interests in mind.  I think we all know that.  But put yourself in their shows, living their life.  They're not on twitter all day.  Trump's rhetoric appeals to them and they don't know it's BS.  They don't care about abortion rights. Their heatlh insurance probably sucks.  Kamala has to do a good job appealing to those people.   We can mock about only caring about the price of milk or eggs but to a lot of people that's the most important issue.  Perception is reality when it comes to politics.

 

NO. After 8 f****** years of this BS, just NO.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

NO. After 8 f****** years of this BS, just NO.

Yeah, enough of the Cletus safairis.  We know that a world view informed by WWE and the Apprentice is not one filled with wisdom.  

[romad1]

We cannot do any more public policy based on these self-entitled, pole greasing, ignoramuses. 

[chasfh]

17 minutes ago, oblong said:

I'm using twitter as a term for just overall political engagement and research of issues.  They're not doing that.  They get their information from Joe at the store and ads they see on TV.  I don't know Kamala's team can do to reach them.  They need ads targeted to them to peel off what they can.

Also, they might not be consistent viewers of news, but when they do turn on the news, it's Fox News, because that's the news everyone else they know watches and that they see on TVs in public, so that's the news, period.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

20 hours ago, chasfh said:

Counterpoint: Losing will send Trump directly into the justice system for the rest of his life, with results that are uncertain as of today.

Trump is only running again specifically to avoid the justice system. He knows he needs to win to avoid prosecution and jail time.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

A friend of mine told me that her son, who is very smart (goes to Carnegie Mellon and very well aware of his privilege), asked her "Mom, if you put your shoes in someone who lives paycheck to paycheck, what issues do you think they are basing their vote on?"  It's not about who should they vote for, or who has their best interests in mind.  I think we all know that.  But put yourself in their shows, living their life.  They're not on twitter all day.  Trump's rhetoric appeals to them and they don't know it's BS.  They don't care about abortion rights. Their heatlh insurance probably sucks.  Kamala has to do a good job appealing to those people.   We can mock about only caring about the price of milk or eggs but to a lot of people that's the most important issue.  Perception is reality when it comes to politics.

 

I agree with this. However, I think Democrats need to demagogue back and create bogymen of their own. Right now, culture is king and Republicans have succeed on cultural issues because they have demagogued and made a villain out of immigrants. Republicans have made economics a cultural issue with evil, scary, brown-skinned, non-English speaking immigrants coming in and not only taking over your culture, but your job as well.

Democrats need to do the same thing but with the ultra wealthy, corporate executives, and big business. In the same way Republicans have ginned up hate and animosity towards immigrant communities, Democrats should be doing it on a class basses.

Democrats need to show people that the real villains, out to destroy your way of life, are wealthy people like Musk and Bezos and the big corporations they operate. They need to show people that greed is bad and these people are trying to control more and more of the wealth. Democrats need to gin up disdain and class warfare against the rich. This is something I think, to a point, people like Bernie Sanders and AOC understand. It's not something that will happen overnight either. But if there is a 5-10-15-20 year sustained attack, with a media apparatus backing it up, on the rich and wealthy, things will begin to change. Right now, people think they too can get rich one day and be an Elon Musk or a Jeff Bezos. Democrats need to make economics a cultural issue too, but a culture based on class identity, not racial identity.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, romad1 said:

Do you mean that Detroit-based Germans were upset about the end of WWI and created the Dolchstoßlegende?

Speaking of Detroit based Germans. Charles Lindbergh's mother was a HS teacher at Detroit Cass Tech.

[Motown Bombers]

The culture war is abortion and democrats have been winning it. Sanders and AOC have won nothing. I don’t think they understand anything. 

[romad1]

13 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I agree with this. However, I think Democrats need to demagogue back and create bogymen of their own. Right now, culture is king and Republicans have succeed on cultural issues because they have demagogued and made a villain out of immigrants. Republicans have made economics a cultural issue with evil, scary, brown-skinned, non-English speaking immigrants coming in and not only taking over your culture, but your job as well.

Democrats need to do the same thing but with the ultra wealthy, corporate executives, and big business. In the same way Republicans have ginned up hate and animosity towards immigrant communities, Democrats should be doing it on a class basses.

Democrats need to show people that the real villains, out to destroy your way of life, are wealthy people like Musk and Bezos and the big corporations they operate. They need to show people that greed is bad and these people are trying to control more and more of the wealth. Democrats need to gin up disdain and class warfare against the rich. This is something I think, to a point, people like Bernie Sanders and AOC understand. It's not something that will happen overnight either. But if there is a 5-10-15-20 year sustained attack, with a media apparatus backing it up, on the rich and wealthy, things will begin to change. Right now, people think they too can get rich one day and be an Elon Musk or a Jeff Bezos. Democrats need to make economics a cultural issue too, but a culture based on class identity, not racial identity.

They could be good villains.  The wanna-be brownshirts in church pews are a little tougher to land punches on.