2024 Presidential Election thread

[1776]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:55 AM, gehringer_2 said:

This is the exactly the kind of thing that if those people were fully functioning humans, should drive them to vote Dem in the fall. But will it?

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As a fully functioning human being, there is absolutely no way I will cast a vote for a political party that I am diametrically opposed to. 
My point of view currently is that I would be ashamed to walk out of a voting booth and have to admit to anyone that I just cast a vote for Biden or Trump. I’ll look at the down ticket and go from there and likely write in a name for the presidency if nothing changes from the current tide. 
I’ll not endorse, through my vote, anyone that I don’t believe in. 

[1776]

  On 3/3/2024 at 4:30 AM, pfife said:

I read other accounts like this as well.   Caucuses are pretty grim anyways but this seems like it makes them untenable.   I don't mean to blame the game instead of the player b/c these players are dirty pieces of **** but caucuses need to go just out of harm reduction principle

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I wish Nikki Haley would run as an independent in November. I believe this would send the Trump and Biden camps into a full blown panic attack. I would cast my vote for her and I firmly believe she would command a very respectable percentage of the votes, enough so to influence the outcome. There still exists a Republican Party that isn’t MAGA. We’re currently the Hebrews that are in the desert, post Egypt exit. Where is our Moses?

[mtutiger]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:16 PM, 1776 said:

I wish Nikki Haley would run as an independent in November. I believe this would send the Trump and Biden camps into a full blown panic attack. I would cast my vote for her and I firmly believe she would command a very respectable percentage of the votes, enough so to influence the outcome. There still exists a Republican Party that isn’t MAGA. We’re currently the Hebrews that are in the desert, post Egypt exit. Where is our Moses?

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For what it's worth, I plan on pulling a R ballot and casting a vote for her on March 19th (IL) provided she doesn't endorse Trump by that point.

I'd like to vote early, but that's a litmus test for me.

I dont agree with her on much of anything, but the general thrust of her campaign, of restoring an actual coherent ethos to the GOP, really is something I sympathize with. In the larger picture though, I dont see a non-MAGA GOP emerging any time in the near future tho

Edited March 3, 2024 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

Good Lord 

[mtutiger]

She's getting herself pretty far out on the limb here... an endorsement would be humiliating

[romad1]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:40 PM, mtutiger said:

She's getting herself pretty far out on the limb here... an endorsement would be humiliating

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Burn your boats when there is no return to the fold.

[mtutiger]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:42 PM, romad1 said:

Burn your boats when there is no return to the fold.

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She may still do it, I certainly don't trust her as much as I'd like on this... but I'm also not clear what exactly an endorsement gets her at this point. 

The Hacks on Tap pod (with Sarah Longwell as guest) had a long talk on this subject, Robert Gibbs and Axe seemed to think her young age suggests that she probably would because she's young and wants to set up a longer play in the event Trump loses or ends up convicted... but it's really really hard to see the party in its current state and think that she would have any success within its confines.

[1776]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:42 PM, romad1 said:

Burn your boats when there is no return to the fold.

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As I stated earlier, I wish she would run as an Independent. 

[romad1]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:49 PM, mtutiger said:

She may still do it, I certainly don't trust her as much as I'd like on this... but I'm also not clear what exactly an endorsement gets her at this point. 

The Hacks on Tap pod (with Sarah Longwell as guest) had a long talk on this subject, Robert Gibbs and Axe seemed to think her young age suggests that she probably would because she's young and wants to set up a longer play in the event Trump loses or ends up convicted... but it's really really hard to see the party in its current state and think that she would have any success within its confines.

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  On 3/3/2024 at 3:00 PM, 1776 said:

As I stated earlier, I wish she would run as an Independent. 

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Its going to be weird voting for her.  I think of her as a oily chameleon doing or saying anything that serves at the moment.  And yet, ethically she is within the normal range for a politician. 

[CMRivdogs]

Just an observation after driving back roads from Williamsburg thru Fredericksburg and into Manassas Va. No Trump signs, 1 Haley sign (in Mechanicsville) and nada from Biden supporters. Lots of re-roofers, however

[mtutiger]

  On 3/3/2024 at 3:06 PM, romad1 said:

 

Its going to be weird voting for her.  I think of her as a oily chameleon doing or saying anything that serves at the moment.  And yet, ethically she is within the normal range for a politician. 

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We are living through weird times lol 

[Tiger337]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:40 PM, mtutiger said:

She's getting herself pretty far out on the limb here... an endorsement would be humiliating

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She'll endorse him.  These people have no shame.  Look how many have humiliated themselves supporting Trump already.  And then they come back later like Christie and try to take him down and are not taken seriously anymore.  

[oblong]

I think a post Trump GOP does take a lot of the wind out of the sails of the crazy lot. Haley is banking on picking up the pieces when it shatters.  

[Motown Bombers]

Haley endorsed Trump once after attacking him, said she would pardon Trump, has already voted for an abortion ban, and has said she will cut social security and Medicare but Biden is the disgusting lowest denominator. 

[gehringer_2]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:07 PM, 1776 said:

absolutely no way I will cast a vote for a political party that I am diametrically opposed to. 

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with all due respect, the system doesn't care about that. What you really are saying is that you'd rather see Trump win than vote for Biden. That's the bottom line practical fact. It is what it is. Like I said, the process doesn't care a whit about what principle you believe you bring to the decision all it cares about are the vote totals. 

Voting is not a symbolic gesture, it's a practical action.

Edited March 3, 2024 by gehringer_2

[1776]

  On 3/3/2024 at 5:03 PM, gehringer_2 said:

What you really are saying is that you'd rather see Trump win than vote for Biden. 

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No, that’s what you’re saying. 

[gehringer_2]

  On 3/3/2024 at 5:14 PM, 1776 said:

No, that’s what you’re saying. 

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But I have the math on my side. 

Edited March 3, 2024 by gehringer_2

[1776]

  On 3/3/2024 at 4:47 PM, oblong said:

I think a post Trump GOP does take a lot of the wind out of the sails of the crazy lot. Haley is banking on picking up the pieces when it shatters.  

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I do believe this is her long game plan. I can’t come up with any other rationale other than that. 

[mtutiger]

  On 3/3/2024 at 4:47 PM, oblong said:

I think a post Trump GOP does take a lot of the wind out of the sails of the crazy lot. Haley is banking on picking up the pieces when it shatters.  

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Exactly, Haley's entire political career, at least within the GOP, probably hinges on that plane (ie. the MAGA movement) crashing into the mountain at this point. 

Not saying she won't do it, but incentives wise, I just don't know what an endorsement does for her in that regard.... 

[mtutiger]

  On 3/3/2024 at 5:20 PM, 1776 said:

I do believe this is her long game plan. I can’t come up with any other rationale other than that. 

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One thought exercise I've gone over in my head a couple times the past few months is what would happen if he ended just keeling over sometime in the next 2-3 months.

The GOP identity is so wrapped up around him at this point that, one would think, it was cause some sort of existential crisis.

Edited March 3, 2024 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

  On 3/3/2024 at 5:29 PM, mtutiger said:

One thought exercise I've gone over in my head a couple times the past few months is what would happen if he ended just keeling over sometime in the next 2-3 months.

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LOL - The Candidate keeling over would create existential panic in either party this cycle. 😱

[1984Echoes]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:30 PM, mtutiger said:

... I dont agree with her on much of anything, but the general thrust of her campaign, of restoring an actual coherent ethos to the GOP, really is something I sympathize with. In the larger picture though, I dont see a non-MAGA GOP emerging any time in the near future tho

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Only as a splinter group.

Like this:

 

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:16 PM, 1776 said:

I wish Nikki Haley would run as an independent in November. I believe this would send the Trump ...camp...

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Except: The only one ****ting his pants if Haley ran as an Independent would be Trump. Biden would not be affected. Except that he'd now win in a blowout, both vote-wise and EC-wise.

[1984Echoes]

  On 3/3/2024 at 2:07 PM, 1776 said:

As a fully functioning human being, there is absolutely no way I will cast a vote for a political party that I am diametrically opposed to...

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The only flipside to this is:

Trump is such an existential threat to our Democracy that you wouldn't actually be voting for Biden if you "pulled the lever" for him. You would be voting for The Constitution of the United States and The American Way of Life.

You would be voting for country, over party.

Just my 2 cents.

[gehringer_2]

  On 3/3/2024 at 5:36 PM, 1984Echoes said:

Only as a splinter group.

Like this:

 

Except: The only one ****ting his pants if Haley ran as an Independent would be Trump. Biden would not be affected. Except that he'd now win in a blowout, both vote-wise and EC-wise.

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Which is why she won't do it. She may talk about how terrible Trump is as long as she's selling herself as the alternative, but I'm on the side that doubts she will actually do anything to prevent him getting elected if he wins the nomination - i.e. go third party.

[Tiger337]

  On 3/3/2024 at 5:29 PM, mtutiger said:

One thought exercise I've gone over in my head a couple times the past few months is what would happen if he ended just keeling over sometime in the next 2-3 months.

The GOP identity is so wrapped up around him at this point that, one would think, it was cause some sort of existential crisis.

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It almost happened in 2020