Dan Gilmore Posted Thursday at 02:59 PM Share Posted Thursday at 02:59 PM I will watch at least some of it, just to see how they are coming across onscreen and then get the takeaways here and from the press later. I don’t think this one debate should be the deciding event for a voter, but it could be if one of them dominates. Not that I expect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:05 PM The other, and hopefully actual, way that Biden wins tonight is we hear Biden talking about us, and we hear Trump talking about Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Thursday at 03:28 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:28 PM 1 hour ago, chasfh said: I'm thinking double-digit percent of voters would vote for Trump's policies in more of a J.D. Vance package. As a man who has a base of celebrity and who can breathe fire when it's convenient, Vance is actually the guy I worry about most post-Trump. This sort of voter is probably already voting for Trump and really isn't the target, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Thursday at 03:32 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:32 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: The election will likely come down to turnout, which is decided in October and November, not June. I've come to this conclusion as well... 2020 was as much about persuasion as turnout, but Biden's issues at the moment are with groups that historically have been in the Democratic corner. He has to consolidate.... there's time, but a number of things have to go right between now and November. I don't know that tonight will change much, but certainly the spin from Trump's campaign going in doesn't exactly project confidence about their candidate IMO Edited Thursday at 03:33 PM by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Thursday at 03:34 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:34 PM (edited) 29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The other, and hopefully actual, way that Biden wins tonight is we hear Biden talking about us, and we hear Trump talking about Trump. Biden's campaign released a pre-debate ad a day or two ago which hit the theme of "I'm fighting for you, Trump is fighting for himself".... so a safe bet that's the direction they are looking to go in. Edited Thursday at 03:34 PM by mtutiger 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted Thursday at 03:59 PM Share Posted Thursday at 03:59 PM 29 minutes ago, mtutiger said: This sort of voter is probably already voting for Trump and really isn't the target, IMO I don’t know about that—I think there are people who would sit out on voting for Trump but would come out to vote for Vance, assuming the exact same positions, because of the way Trump acts out and makes the whole party look like a clown show. I’m talking about people who want their fascism wrapped up in a nicely presentable package. Vance can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted Thursday at 04:17 PM Share Posted Thursday at 04:17 PM If Biden has one gaffe or stumble the media will eat him alive and be talking about how he's too old to handle the job. Trump can have incoherent word salad almost all night and they'll talk about how tough he looked up there. Biden needs to be as mistake free as he can be do to the bothsideism coverage in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Thursday at 04:19 PM Share Posted Thursday at 04:19 PM 1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: If Biden has one gaffe or stumble the media will eat him alive and be talking about how he's too old to handle the job. Trump can have incoherent word salad almost all night and they'll talk about how tough he looked up there. Biden needs to be as mistake free as he can be do to the bothsideism coverage in the media. Certainly, some bad faith actors like Jon Stewart will be all over this with a "why do we have to pick between these two awful choices" take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted Thursday at 04:44 PM Share Posted Thursday at 04:44 PM 43 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don’t know about that—I think there are people who would sit out on voting for Trump but would come out to vote for Vance, assuming the exact same positions, because of the way Trump acts out and makes the whole party look like a clown show. I’m talking about people who want their fascism wrapped up in a nicely presentable package. Vance can do that. I think people you describe do exist but the one difference is say they aren't voting for Trump, but did... and will. They just hide it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted Thursday at 04:58 PM Share Posted Thursday at 04:58 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, chasfh said: Of course, then he has four-plus month to maintain that veneer of reasonableness with the middle, so … this is why Trump accepted for a debate this early. Hillary trounced in the 1st debate and the polls immediately after had her winning easily (as had been litigated ad nauseum!), but Hills didn't really show up in the rest of the debates and Trump was able to recover. I think that the difference here is that all Biden has to do for those worried about his age is to have his **** together and once that impression is made, what happens on the Trump side is less important. Whereas every time Hillary had additional mass exposure there was just more risk she'd tick off more people (sorry Hillary supporters, but that's just the way people take her to a large degree.) Edited Thursday at 05:00 PM by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Thursday at 05:04 PM Share Posted Thursday at 05:04 PM ugh...talk about bad faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted Thursday at 05:55 PM Share Posted Thursday at 05:55 PM 50 minutes ago, romad1 said: ugh...talk about bad faith. Cannon’s just doing what she was hired to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Thursday at 05:56 PM Share Posted Thursday at 05:56 PM 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Thursday at 06:11 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:11 PM 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: I think that the difference here is that all Biden has to do for those worried about his age is to have his **** together and once that impression is made, what happens on the Trump side is less important. And expectations are really really low here.... too low in fact. Again, there's a reason that the same crowd who has been throwing the "D" word around shamelessly has spent this week backpedaling and framing Biden as the greatest debater of our time, referencing back to his debate with Paul Ryan, etc. I don't know what will happen, but the chances of him being fine are probably greater than we are giving him credit for IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted Thursday at 06:22 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:22 PM A lot of people thought Biden looked really good at his State Of The Union and it hurt the Repugnantcans argument of "too old". Muting the mics when it's not their turn is a huge advantage for Biden. Trump's strategy last time was to talk over him and shout over him to rattle him. It really didn't work. And I bet he runs his mouth the whole time his mic is off tonight too. We won't hear it too well on t.v. but Biden will hear it there. Just don't get into the insult game too much. Stick to the track record and not name calling. Be the adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted Thursday at 06:43 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:43 PM 15 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: A lot of people thought Biden looked really good at his State Of The Union and it hurt the Repugnantcans argument of "too old". Muting the mics when it's not their turn is a huge advantage for Biden. Trump's strategy last time was to talk over him and shout over him to rattle him. It really didn't work. And I bet he runs his mouth the whole time his mic is off tonight too. We won't hear it too well on t.v. but Biden will hear it there. Just don't get into the insult game too much. Stick to the track record and not name calling. Be the adult. The other point that has come up leading up to this debate (and it's a valid one) is that incumbents usually run into trouble in the first debate. But part of that history is that challengers generally had to fight through debates to get to the nomination, something that Donald Trump didn't do during this nomination contest because he didn't participate in any debates. The last time *either* man has debated was the same date and place: October 22, 2020 at Belmont University. It's hard to compare the situation with Biden to the past cycles just because the expectations / stakes have been raised. And you can tell, given the amount of time they have prepped, that they are aware of it and aren't taking anything for granted. Not a guarantee to success, but he / they aren't being complacent as far as I can tell about the challenge ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Thursday at 06:47 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:47 PM 11 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: A lot of people thought Biden looked really good at his State Of The Union and it hurt the Repugnantcans argument of "too old". Muting the mics when it's not their turn is a huge advantage for Biden. Trump's strategy last time was to talk over him and shout over him to rattle him. It really didn't work. And I bet he runs his mouth the whole time his mic is off tonight too. We won't hear it too well on t.v. but Biden will hear it there. Just don't get into the insult game too much. Stick to the track record and not name calling. Be the adult. in 2021 I felt the pit of despair that Michigan would be destroyed against OSU. then Hassan Haskins hurdled some fools and like that "the sun also rises" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted Thursday at 07:09 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:09 PM 2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: If Biden has one gaffe or stumble the media will eat him alive and be talking about how he's too old to handle the job. This is the nature of the election though. The right has nominated and rallied behind a misogynistic felon and the left has decided that standards matter to at least some extent (and then spent way too much time fighting with each other about to what extent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasTiger Posted Thursday at 07:16 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:16 PM 8 hours ago, romad1 said: We should do a GDT for the debate Nah, I prefer the politics forum remain civilized. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted Thursday at 07:25 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:25 PM 1 hour ago, chasfh said: Cannon’s just doing what she was hired to do. Compromised. She is completely corrupted to DJT. It's over-the-top. And over-the-top sickening. And Trump promises to corrupt the government, in every possible aspect, every department, every justice, even more-so than his 1st term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Friday at 12:31 AM Share Posted Friday at 12:31 AM Nice frame the manic energy on TV tonight is like a the post-Halloween candy gobbling sugar rush of a bunch of 10 year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted Friday at 12:47 AM Share Posted Friday at 12:47 AM Ha! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted Friday at 01:14 AM Share Posted Friday at 01:14 AM Biden is doing terrible thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted Friday at 01:15 AM Share Posted Friday at 01:15 AM Just now, Mr.TaterSalad said: Biden is doing terrible thus far. He has been an absolute disaster so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted Friday at 01:16 AM Share Posted Friday at 01:16 AM Just now, Tiger337 said: He has been an absolute disaster so far. Yeah, no spin, no way around it. It sounds old and congested. He's also stumbling all over on his answers. This is not good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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