2024 Presidential Election thread

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, romad1 said:

As the "near enemy" of Trump and MAGA the stakes are higher for me than they are for mere democrats.  

So quit pissing all over yourself and get behind Biden. 

[Motown Bombers]

I like the thought of replacing Biden with a California liberal like Newsom who has open borders where illegal immigrants are pillaging LA and SF and mass homelessness. 

[pfife]

SMFH.

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Not any differently than Reagan during HIS 2nd term.

Biden is a lot older than Reagan was. I'm too young to remember much about Regan's mannerisms but in the here and now you can see how much Biden has declined the last 4 years and at his age the decline usually accelerates. It's hard to watch every time he speaks.

In this critical time in our country, it's not very reassuring that our choices for  commander in chief is either an old man who is declining rapidly or an old man who is a blabbering, narcissistic loon. Scary times

Edited June 28, 2024 by NYLion

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Biden is a lot older than Reagan was. I'm too young to remember much about Regan's mannerisms but in the here and now you can see how much Biden has declined the last 4 years and at his age the decline usually accelerates.

In this critical time in our country, it's not very reassuring that our choices for  commander in chief is either an old man who is declining rapidly or an old man who is a blabbering, narcissistic loon. Scary times

Well there is the fact that one old man has been the most successful president in decades and the other old man was the worst president in history. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[1984Echoes]

3 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Biden is a lot older than Reagan was. I'm too young to remember much about Regan's mannerisms but in the ...

Reagan looked horrific in the 1984 debates.

He was already struggling with Alzheimer's, and it was visible:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/31/health/parsing-ronald-reagans-words-for-early-signs-of-alzheimers.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/17/ronald-reagan-alzheimers-president-son

Ron Reagan (Jr.) describes his growing sense of alarm over his father's mental condition, beginning as early as three years into his first term. He recalls the presidential debate with Walter Mondale on 7 October 1984. "My heart sank as he floundered his way through his responses, fumbling with his notes, uncharacteristically lost for words. He looked tired and bewildered," Ron Reagan writes.

 

Didn't matter. He trounced Mondale by historic margins. Nancy and team hid him as effectively as they could. But his deterioration was showing prior to the 1984 election.

[Motown Bombers]

I think people forget Biden has a stutter. He's never been a good debater even when he was younger. Now that he's old, everyone will blame it on age. 

[oblong]

The depressing thing to me isn't Biden's slowing down itself... it's the effect it could have on voters.  I personally don't care or think it has to affect his performance as older people DO slow down but their mind still works.  That's what matters.  Our commander in chief doesn't get on a horse and lead troops to battle.  They make decisions based on advisers.

Biden could be in a wheelchair with a feeding tube and non verbal and I'd vote for him over Trump.   There's still no comparison.

It's all in the context of the election results for me.

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Biden is a lot older than Reagan was. I'm too young to remember much about Regan's mannerisms but in the here and now you can see how much Biden has declined the last 4 years and at his age the decline usually accelerates. It's hard to watch every time he speaks.

In this critical time in our country, it's not very reassuring that our choices for  commander in chief is either an old man who is declining rapidly or an old man who is a blabbering, narcissistic loon. Scary times

This campaign has been the most low energy campaign of my lifetime, most people seem to avoid the topic like the plague, but the thing I hear over and over again to the extent that the topic comes up is "is this really the best we have to offer" and "we need younger candidates"

I'm sympathetic to MB's points, I think Biden and his administration have done a lot of good things in their time in office. But the job of governing and the job of running a Presidential campaign are two different things.... especially at his age he had to demonstrate that he was up to another four years, and it didn't happen last night. 

That's just reality.... I think we need to see what actual hard data shows, and we will get that in due time. But it's 100% legitimate to have this conversation IMO.

[1984Echoes]

9 minutes ago, NYLion said:

... it's not very reassuring that our choices for commander in chief is either an old man who is declining rapidly or an old man who is a blabbering, narcissistic...

Liar.

Felon.

Fascist.

Criminal.

Moron.

Anti-democratic/ anti-constitutional.

Racist.

Divisive.

Corrupt.

Con-Artist.

 

How much further would you like me to go on...?

"I can do this all day."

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, oblong said:

The depressing thing to me isn't Biden's slowing down itself... it's the effect it could have on voters.  I personally don't care or think it has to affect his performance as older people DO slow down but their mind still works.  That's what matters.  Our commander in chief doesn't get on a horse and lead troops to battle.  They make decisions based on advisers.

Biden could be in a wheelchair with a feeding tube and on verbal and I'd vote for him over Trump.   There's still no comparison.

It's all in the context of the election results for me.

All the focus groups so far show it has little affect. What will have affect on voters is the constant bedwetting from Dems. Republicans rallied around Trump after his convictions. Dems need to put on depends after one bad debate. 

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

... Biden could be in a wheelchair with a feeding tube and on verbal and I'd vote for him over Trump....

Biden could be a Weekend With Bernie corpse and I'd vote for him over scumbag Trump.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

The depressing thing to me isn't Biden's slowing down itself... it's the effect it could have on voters. 

The inability to push back on Donald Trump when he made mistakes is what got me. A sharper candidate could have drew blood on Donald Trump last night.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

All the focus groups so far show it has little affect. What will have affect on voters is the constant bedwetting from Dems. Republicans rallied around Trump after his convictions. Dems need to put on depends after one bad debate. 

"Little affect" isn't exactly good enough when you are trying to fundamentally change the dynamics in a stable race.

Even if "nothing happens" (which is more of a possibility than a lot of folks are considering, especially in elite media circles), he needs more than "nothing happens"

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This campaign has been the most low energy campaign of my lifetime, most people seem to avoid the topic like the plague, but the thing I hear over and over again to the extent that the topic comes up is "is this really the best we have to offer" and "we need younger candidates"

I'm sympathetic to MB's points, I think Biden and his administration have done a lot of good things in their time in office. But the job of governing and the job of running a Presidential campaign are two different things.... especially at his age he had to demonstrate that he was up to another four years, and it didn't happen last night. 

That's just reality.... I think we need to see what actual hard data shows, and we will get that in due time. But it's 100% legitimate to have this conversation IMO.

No it's not legitimate to have this conversation. Dems should be out there highlighting his accomplishments as president. He is the nominee. He is the better choice. What conversation is there to have? It's not going to be Newsom or Whitmer. It's one bad debate for Christ sakes and I didn't even think it was that catastrophic. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I listened to the Pod Save America debate recap last night. Now, these are individuals who worked for the Obama White House. Who worked for and with Joe Biden. These are as loyal a group of people to Joe Biden and the Democratic Party as you can get. These are not Twitter hacks or online trolls or passive political followers. Even they were saying the idea of having a brokered convention and do we continue on with Joe Biden or not needs to be discussed. You have to feel like if people like these four hosts and former staffers are talking about it this publicly than people within the party including strategists, talking heads, fundraisers, and electeds are talking about it. The conversation about replacing Joe Biden on the ticket, after last night, needs to be had. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't need to be had, but it does.

Personally, I think we should have had a competitive primary process from the get go, with Joe Biden having clearly stated he would not run again. Voters have been telling us in data point after data point that they want someone else besides Biden this time around. He's been trailing in just about every battleground state poll for months now, only occasionally up in Michigan or Wisconsin. The biggest concern expressed by people across the board has been Biden's age and fitness to hold up to the rigors of the Presidency and do the job. Last night only exacerbated the concerns people have. Joe Biden did about as bad a job as you could in trying to assuage people's fears that he is too old or not up for the task. No amount of spin can discount that.

To act as if Joe Biden is the only one that can beat Trump is really a silly argument too. There are many candidates, within the ranks of the Democratic Party, who if given the opportunity and fundraising to compete on a national stage against Donald Trump could do so. There are many formidable candidates that are younger and more energetic who could have taken on trump and ushered in a new generation of Democratic Party politics. And no, Bernie and Warren aren't who I am talking about. I think any one of Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, and Raphael Warnock, to name a few, are all options who I think could replace Biden, beat Trump, and bring in a new era of Democratic politics. Frankly, I do think the party needs to look at replacing Joe Biden at the convention after last night's disastrously bad performance and Joe Biden himself needs to be thanked and then convinced to step aside.

Edited June 28, 2024 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, mtutiger said:

"Little affect" isn't exactly good enough when you are trying to fundamentally change the dynamics in a stable race.

Even if "nothing happens" (which is more of a possibility than a lot of folks are considering, especially in elite media circles), he needs more than "nothing happens"

He's not trying to fundamentally change the dynamics. He just needs to shore up votes in three states. People act like this is an apocalypse. The most damage being done is all the Dems pissing themselves. 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I listened to the Pod Save America debate recap last night. Now, these are individuals who worked for the Obama White House. Who worked for and with Joe Biden. These are as loyal a group of people to Joe Biden and the Democratic Party as you can get. These are not Twitter hacks or online trolls or passive political followers. Even they were saying the idea of having a brokered convention and do we continue on with Joe Biden or not needs to be discussed. You have to feel like if people like these four hosts and former staffers are talking about it this publicly than people within the party including strategists, talking heads, fundraisers, and electeds are talking about it. The conversation about replacing Joe Biden on the ticket, after last night, needs to be had. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't need to be had, but it does.

Personally, I think we should have had a competitive primary process from the get go, with Joe Biden having clearly stated he would not run again. There are many formidable candidates that are younger and more energetic who could have taken on trump and ushered in a new generation of Democratic Party politics. And no, Bernie and Warren aren't who I am talking about. I think any one of Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Shapiro, and Raphael Warnock to name a few, are all options who I think could replace Biden, beat Trump, and bring in a new era of Democratic politics.

Why does everyone skip right the **** over the black woman when they do their fantasies about replacing Biden? 

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I listened to the Pod Save America debate recap last night. Now, these are individuals who worked for the Obama White House. Who worked for and with Joe Biden. These are as loyal a group of people to Joe Biden and the Democratic Party as you can get.

We've had this conversation before, but just because these guys worked for an administration that Biden served in doesn't mean they have incredible loyalty to Joe Biden.

Politics is a cutthroat business.... there are people in any Presidential administration who serve with people they dislike or even hate. 

[Motown Bombers]

There is literally now data that says Newsom, Whitmer, Shapiro, Warnock et al would do better than Biden except for some white people's vibes. 

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Why does everyone skip right the **** over the black woman when they do their fantasies about replacing Biden? 

The open primary idea also skips over the idea that incumbency imbues a candidate with huge advantages, especially as it pertains to fundraising.

Trump and Biden are almost equal at COH at the moment, with Biden being ahead of Trump in building infrastructure in the states. An open primary would lead to a situation where Trump, the quasi incumbent, would be beating whoever emerged on both of these fronts.

There are downsides to these fantasy scenarios that people are not thinking about, let's just put it that way.

[Motown Bombers]

What amazing to me is people actually think Newsom would be a better candidate as if there wouldn't be a 24/7 reel of homeless camps, or immigrants running across the border whether it's the California border or not, and every Republican claiming they stepped on a needle or saw a pile of feces in San Francisco. Then there is the **** we don't even know about Newsom.

[pfife]

12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

"Little affect" isn't exactly good enough when you are trying to fundamentally change the dynamics in a stable race.

Even if "nothing happens" (which is more of a possibility than a lot of folks are considering, especially in elite media circles), he needs more than "nothing happens"

Yes.

[pfife]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

We've had this conversation before, but just because these guys worked for an administration that Biden served in doesn't mean they have incredible loyalty to Joe Biden.

Politics is a cutthroat business.... there are people in any Presidential administration who serve with people they dislike or even hate. 

I've listened to these guys since they were with ringer and we're called keeping it 1600.    I can't remember many times, if any, where they've not been behind Biden.  

I know what you're saying is true but I'm not sure that general statement applies to these specific ppl based on my consumption of their content.