2024 Presidential Election thread

[ewsieg]

From everything I’ve read, Biden asked for this format and rules and Trump accepted them all.

i wouldn’t be against a live fact checker but I definitely can see some issues with that too.  There was very little for the moderators to do here based on Biden’s rules and they pointed out several times, only to Trump, that he didn’t answer the question asked of him.  
 

blaming the moderators on this performance is ridiculous.

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

From everything I’ve read, Biden asked for this format and rules and Trump accepted them all.

i wouldn’t be against a live fact checker but I definitely can see some issues with that too.  There was very little for the moderators to do here based on Biden’s rules and they pointed out several times, only to Trump, that he didn’t answer the question asked of him.  
 

blaming the moderators on this performance is ridiculous.

To be clear, I'm not blaming the moderators for this performance. Biden owns his performance in that debate.

But both things can be true: Biden sucked and, even if it was a format the campaigns agreed on, there are things they could have done during and after the production that would have served and better informed viewers.

Edited June 29, 2024 by mtutiger

[romad1]

Bulwark podcast on Friday was appropriately bleak.   Joe should step aside for someone was the prevailing concern of the lot of Tim Miller, JVL, Sarah Longwell.  Who and how is the hangup.  Not easy.   The best remaining scenario is where Joe actually goes on offense and takes the 72 Dolphins (my words) to have all sorts of surrogates attack, attack, attack like Harry Truman in 1948.  Does he have that in him?  Dunno.

I am 100% convinced this wouldn't be a race if 1.0 WAR generic Dem politician or even 0.0 WAR generic Dem was running against 34 felony convictions and 2 impeachments guy who wants to end NATO and claims to have lowered the cost of insulin and is afraid of electricity and sharks but not in that order.

What we have for now is a net negative "campaign and election WAR" guy who is OTOH masterfully running the actual country at a high level against a lunatic fringe congressional majority that wants to do performative things because that is what the oligarchs apparently want right now.  

Stuff costs more:  duh, we had a pandemic. 

Russia is harder to beat in Ukraine than we thought: duh, the GOP undercut the war effort for a year because its flag bearer was listening to Putin whisper in his ear. 

Interests rates are too high: that's how you fix inflation.

Meanwhile the SCOTUS is run by crazy flag lady's husband and the guy who likes him some recreational vehicles and those two lunatics are busy destroying the rule of law one decision at a time.   Chevron decision for one is going to seriously banana republic this country up.

[romad1]

This is a pretty good primer of the situation.

https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/biden-debate-replace-advisers

[Motown Bombers]

If it wasn’t Biden, they would find something with the other candidates who poll worse than Biden. I really don’t value the opinion of a bunch of former Republicans who helped create Trump. 

[oblong]

7 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Bulwark podcast on Friday was appropriately bleak.   Joe should step aside for someone was the prevailing concern of the lot of Tim Miller, JVL, Sarah Longwell.  Who and how is the hangup.  Not easy.   The best remaining scenario is where Joe actually goes on offense and takes the 72 Dolphins (my words) to have all sorts of surrogates attack, attack, attack like Harry Truman in 1948.  Does he have that in him?  Dunno.

I am 100% convinced this wouldn't be a race if 1.0 WAR generic Dem politician or even 0.0 WAR generic Dem was running against 34 felony convictions and 2 impeachments guy who wants to end NATO and claims to have lowered the cost of insulin and is afraid of electricity and sharks but not in that order.

What we have for now is a net negative "campaign and election WAR" guy who is OTOH masterfully running the actual country at a high level against a lunatic fringe congressional majority that wants to do performative things because that is what the oligarchs apparently want right now.  

Stuff costs more:  duh, we had a pandemic. 

Russia is harder to beat in Ukraine than we thought: duh, the GOP undercut the war effort for a year because its flag bearer was listening to Putin whisper in his ear. 

Interests rates are too high: that's how you fix inflation.

Meanwhile the SCOTUS is run by crazy flag lady's husband and the guy who likes him some recreational vehicles and those two lunatics are busy destroying the rule of law one decision at a time.   Chevron decision for one is going to seriously banana republic this country up.

The problem is Kamala Harris.  The party would lose a lot of built up goodwill with the black community if they decided another candidate was needed and it wasn’t the sitting #2 who is slated for the same thing going forward. 

[Motown Bombers]

Any Dem candidate would be better.

Ok Kamala Harris

No we have problems with her too. 

[mtutiger]

 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tiger337]

44 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Bulwark podcast on Friday was appropriately bleak.   Joe should step aside for someone was the prevailing concern of the lot of Tim Miller, JVL, Sarah Longwell.  Who and how is the hangup.  Not easy.   The best remaining scenario is where Joe actually goes on offense and takes the 72 Dolphins (my words) to have all sorts of surrogates attack, attack, attack like Harry Truman in 1948.  Does he have that in him?  Dunno.

 

This needs to be done.  A lot of people don't understand how bad of a person Trump is because they don't pay attention.  His character should be attacked daily, systematically and unapologetically.  And don't sweep it under the rug because a new scandal pops up.  

[mtutiger]

 

The odds have gone up that he drops IMO.

[romad1]

 

At minimum vote against Trump

[Motown Bombers]

Look whose backtracking 

 

[romad1]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

 

The odds have gone up that he drops IMO.

I guess I need to see more evidence.  Info op by the Russians is always a possibility.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[ewsieg]

Biden will not be president again, I feel that's a near certainty.  Rather he steps down to give dems a chance or loses, I don't know.  

In response to motownbomber, many on the bulwark were folks that helped create Trump, but Tim Miller is not one of them and I think his last podcast was 100% right.  Rather the dems keep Biden or not, they need to be 100% on the offense right now.  Every member of the cabinet needs to try and take up as much spotlight as possible to show they have a team around Biden and Kamala basically has until the convention to make people believe that if, or rather when Biden dies/resigns, she's ready and capable.  Personally I think that's about as likely as Trump resigning for the good of the country, but it needs to happen.

[romad1]

11 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Biden will not be president again, I feel that's a near certainty.  Rather he steps down to give dems a chance or loses, I don't know.  

In response to motownbomber, many on the bulwark were folks that helped create Trump, but Tim Miller is not one of them and I think his last podcast was 100% right.  Rather the dems keep Biden or not, they need to be 100% on the offense right now.  Every member of the cabinet needs to try and take up as much spotlight as possible to show they have a team around Biden and Kamala basically has until the convention to make people believe that if, or rather when Biden dies/resigns, she's ready and capable.  Personally I think that's about as likely as Trump resigning for the good of the country, but it needs to happen.

Trump's friends need to intervene with him too...yada yada.

 

The Tim Miller, JVL, Sarah Longwell position is that Trump winning is the disaster.  

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Daniel Dale was fact checking in real time in Twitter. Just run it as a ticker on the broadcast. 

CNN wants nothing to do with that. Something about bias charges.

[mtutiger]

8 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Biden will not be president again, I feel that's a near certainty.  Rather he steps down to give dems a chance or loses, I don't know.  

In response to motownbomber, many on the bulwark were folks that helped create Trump, but Tim Miller is not one of them and I think his last podcast was 100% right.  Rather the dems keep Biden or not, they need to be 100% on the offense right now.  Every member of the cabinet needs to try and take up as much spotlight as possible to show they have a team around Biden and Kamala basically has until the convention to make people believe that if, or rather when Biden dies/resigns, she's ready and capable.  Personally I think that's about as likely as Trump resigning for the good of the country, but it needs to happen.

My only wish from those demanding Biden step aside is that they recognize the reality that there is no Plan F, Netflix scenario with a contested convention and Gretchen Whitmer emerging.

Kamala Harris, for a variety of practical reasons, is the next available option. Those who make the demands while ignoring her presence are hard to take seriously. And frankly, a lot of supposedly serious people (and now editorial boards) are doing that.

Edited June 30, 2024 by mtutiger

[CMRivdogs]

Playing this out fully. If Biden is considered not capable of running for re-election, what the hell is he doing serving as President?

Taking it a step farther, if Biden (Joe or Jill) decide he's unable to continue to govern, Harris becomes President. She'll have to nominate a Vice President, that must be approved by a majority of both houses of Congress.

This happened with Nixon and Agnew. That was 50 years ago. I just can't see today's Congress, especially the kindergarten called the House of Representatives, approving anyone Harris would nominate tossing the executive branch and country further into crisis mode. 
 

 

[pfife]

4 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

This happened with Nixon and Agnew. That was 50 years ago. I just can't see today's Congress, especially the kindergarten called the House of Representatives, approving anyone Harris would nominate tossing the executive branch and country further into crisis mode. 

You seem to be suggesting that the folks the Dems saved from themselves a few months ago in order to govern wouldn't return the favor.   Shocking they wouldn't do that.  

[pfife]

If they didn't allow a replacement VP, then wouldn't' Maga Mike effectively be the VP as the third in line normally?   Seems even more reason to not confirm someone if you're Unified Reich. 

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Playing this out fully. If Biden is considered not capable of running for re-election, what the hell is he doing serving as President?

Taking it a step farther, if Biden (Joe or Jill) decide he's unable to continue to govern, Harris becomes President. She'll have to nominate a Vice President, that must be approved by a majority of both houses of Congress.

This happened with Nixon and Agnew. That was 50 years ago. I just can't see today's Congress, especially the kindergarten called the House of Representatives, approving anyone Harris would nominate tossing the executive branch and country further into crisis mode. 
 

 

Practically speaking, she would just end up not having a VP until if she won the Presidency

[oblong]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Practically speaking, she would just end up not having a VP until if she won the Presidency

Which used to be the normal process. 

[Edman85]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Practically speaking, she would just end up not having a VP until if she won the Presidency

And Mike Johnson would be one racist lunatic with a sniper rifle away from the Presidency.