gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 (edited) What a total misread. Johnson didn't withdraw because it was 'popular' he withdrew because he didn't want to be embarrassed by losing the nomination in a party that wanted the war over (or alternately splitting the party so badly he couldn't win). Johnson was at the end of his rope over Vietnam - he had no idea what to do next and everyone, including LBJ, realized he was paralyzed. He knew if he pulled the plug the US public - the voting public that had won WWII, would never accept a 'loss' (which in 68 was absolutely still the case), but he also was figuring out that the DOD had no idea how to win either. Edited June 30, 2024 by gehringer_2 2 Quote
mtutiger Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 7:11 PM, ewsieg said: Rather this is a planned trip or not, if his team is not talking to him about stepping down, then they are just 'yes' men like we all fear Trump will have anyway. It would be a dereliction of duty if they do not ask the tough questions to him. Expand 100%, it is spin... I don't think they are inured to the idea there is a problem here, whether or not it was preplanned Quote
mtutiger Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 (edited) James Carville made a comment that has stuck with me a day or two ago, something to the effect of "this effort will continue until it cannot." I doubt he has any special insight, but essentially, the line of continuing to stay in and fight will continue until the moment its not the party line anymore. Something to keep in mind in the coming days... Edited June 30, 2024 by mtutiger Quote
mtutiger Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 Meanwhile, the press continues to cover themselves in glory during this whole affair. Like, how dare the Toledo Blade and Naperville Sun cover things happening in Toledo and Naperville? lol 1 Quote
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 What happens when Democrats overturn the election and install Whitmer as the nominee and she bombs a debate? Do we go back to Biden? Quote
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 (edited) This isn’t about losing a debate. I personally think he won the debate handily. It’s about how he looked on the stage and his age and mental ability going forward. That’s going be forefront on the minds of many voters. If this was an isolated incident and he was just having a bad day, it’s a non issue for the Dems. Let’s all move along and this goes away. The problem is that if things like this keep happening, it becomes an election losing situation. God forbid something worse than what we saw at the start of the debate happens in the Fall just a few months before election day. Trump would walk to an easy victory. The reality is there are no other options that can beat Trump right now. Removing Biden can’t be an option unless there’s been much more going on behind the scenes in his day to day functioning than we don’t get to see. If there was any real thought (not silly media rumors) of actually replacing right now, it would lead me to believe that these things have been noticeable for quite some time and people close to him and the DNC have been trying to keep them from coming to light. Edited June 30, 2024 by Hongbit Quote
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 We just skip right over Trump is only 3 years younger, morbidly obese, couldn't stay awake during his trial, and slurs his speech at almost every rally. Quote
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 If Biden is so bad he can't run, shouldn't we be calling on him to resign then? Quote
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:08 PM, Motown Bombers said: We just skip right over Trump is only 3 years younger, morbidly obese, couldn't stay awake during his trial, and slurs his speech at almost every rally. Expand All true but unfortunately this is not part of the public perception at the moment. It’s probably a great idea for the Biden campaign and Democratic war machine to start focusing on health much more with regards to Trump. If both sides are perceived to have the same issue, it’s no longer a deciding factor in the election. 2 Quote
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:15 PM, Hongbit said: All true but unfortunately this is not part of the public perception at the moment. It’s probably a great idea for the Biden campaign and Democratic war machine to start focusing on health much more with regards to Trump. If both sides are perceived to have the same issue, it’s no longer a deciding factor in the election. Expand Public perception has remained unchanged and may have slightly improved in Biden's favor. Obama took a way worse hit after his first debate in 2012. Quote
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:15 PM, Motown Bombers said: If Biden is so bad he can't run, shouldn't we be calling on him to resign then? Expand I don’t know if he is or not. We are just discussing it since this is discussion board and that’s what we do. 1 Quote
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:16 PM, Motown Bombers said: Public perception has remained unchanged and may have slightly improved in Biden's favor. Obama took a way worse hit after his first debate in 2012. Expand Trump was awful. I bet Biden would’ve gained maybe as many 10 points in the polls had he not had those moments in the first 30 minutes. It definitely hurt him. Quote
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:22 PM, Hongbit said: Trump was awful. I bet Biden would’ve gained maybe as many 10 points in the polls had he not had those moments in the first 30 minutes. It definitely hurt him. Expand If debates mattered, Hillary would have won. Quote
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:25 PM, Motown Bombers said: If debates mattered, Hillary would have won. Expand The issue isn’t the debate. It has nothing to do with who won or lost or any of the points or policy discussed. It’s about something concerning that happened with a candidate that just happened to take place at the debate. Quote
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 11:34 PM, Hongbit said: The issue isn’t the debate. It has nothing to do with who won or lost or any of the points or policy discussed. It’s about something concerning that happened with a candidate that just happened to take place at the debate. Expand You just said he would have gained 10 points had those moments not happened. Nobody was going to gain 10 points from a debate. Quote
Hongbit Posted June 30, 2024 Posted June 30, 2024 It was hyperbole but a 10 point debate poll could happen. Polls aren’t reliable anymore. Anyone can a buy one to say whatever they want. Quote
mtutiger Posted July 1, 2024 Posted July 1, 2024 I like Sarah Longwell, but just pretending Kamala Harris isn't a factor is as delusional as manu people think Biden's campaign is IMO Quote
Motown Bombers Posted July 1, 2024 Posted July 1, 2024 There is no mechanism to get any of them on the ballot. They would have to build a campaign from scratch. They don't just get Biden's money. Would they even be able to get on the ballot in all the states? This is insanity over a debate. Quote
Motown Bombers Posted July 1, 2024 Posted July 1, 2024 Didn't say it in a debate so unfortunately it doesn't count. 1 Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 1, 2024 Posted July 1, 2024 Interesting assessment of Biden from a surprising source. James is not just being a knee jerk lefty by the way. In fact, he has been critical of Biden before. I don't think he's a righty either. He is all over the map. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 1, 2024 Posted July 1, 2024 On 7/1/2024 at 1:04 AM, Motown Bombers said: Didn't say it in a debate so unfortunately it doesn't count. Expand He is completely full of ****. He acted kind of normal in the debate because he wants the soccer moms to think he's not such a bad guy. He acts crazy when he talks to MAGA because that's what they want to hear. It is total manipulation all the time from the psychopath. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 1, 2024 Posted July 1, 2024 On 6/30/2024 at 6:08 PM, Motown Bombers said: Expand But they'll vote for him anyway. Quote
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